THOUGHTSEIZE
Economics forum
Posted on Aug. 30, 2013, 5:52 p.m. by bman5604
Thoughtseize is being reprinted in theros!!! Thank you wizards for making this happen. Lets just hope it drops prices across the board.
RickyHoeppner says... #7
I was reading the comments on magicspoiler and read one that said "Suck it" - Mutavault. I laughed out loud. I was thinking of taking credit, but I figured most of you also lurk on that site.
August 30, 2013 6:21 p.m.
lord_of_the_snakes says... #10
eww, why does Wizards hate me, i want to run control, but all the good control cards in this set are going to cost 25-30$, does anyone know what a good cheap deck will be in theros? and the reprinted JTMS in FTV: 20, this is such a problem, stupid OP card reprints, WotC, fix this!
August 30, 2013 7:02 p.m.
guess what could all this end when we discover they are also printing Blightning for greeks
August 30, 2013 7:10 p.m.
or not, but woht! they ARE printing theese new cheaper Thoughtseize
August 30, 2013 7:37 p.m.
CaveShinobi says... #13
@bantam1234 Nobody can tell you what a good cheap deck will be in Theros because we still don't even know 1/4 of the cards that are going to be released in Theros...
And I don't see how JTMS being released in FTV20 would be any issue. It's not Standard legal.
August 30, 2013 7:47 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #14
@xlaleclx: Maybe not. Thoughtseize is still a staple in every major constructed format, and the old printings will retain much of their value. Look at the reprints of Bob and Goyf from MMA - the values actually went up. Then again MMA was a limited release. The new Thoughtseize might end up around $35-40, but I personally don't think the old one will.
August 30, 2013 8:53 p.m.
The old one will probably be about $50. The Theros print will probably be 35-40
August 30, 2013 9:06 p.m.
The old Thoughtseize might drop 10 dollars from its price tag at most but Epochalyptik is right on new print value. If there is a good counter that gets printed in theros esper will dominate for a year!
August 30, 2013 9:07 p.m.
This is awesome, if I can pull enough from packs I get for my birthday I can replace Inquisition of Kozilek with them in my Esper control deck!
August 30, 2013 9:13 p.m.
WovenNebula says... #18
Since WoTC is trolling us with this. Lol They should reprint Sneak Attack , since its only 40.00 and its an enchantment. Lol
August 30, 2013 9:41 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #19
There's no need to reprint Sneak Attack . There is a need to reprint Thoughtseize .
August 30, 2013 9:44 p.m.
WovenNebula says... #20
@Epochalyptik Just a lot of wishing on my part of reprints from the Urza block, how I miss that set. Lol
August 30, 2013 9:49 p.m.
What I wish would be reprinted but never will be because of its Modern banning is Preordain . It has good reason to be banned, but I'd like to see it sometime with new art. The two different ones aren't enough for me. :P
August 30, 2013 9:53 p.m.
Preordain could be reprinted. It's banning in modern doesn't matter really.
August 31, 2013 4:58 a.m.
Thoughtseize just dropped to $30 on SCG. Who called it?http://sales.starcitygames.com/carddisplay.php?product=47609
September 1, 2013 12:03 a.m.
Thoughtseize just dropped to $30 on SCG. http://sales.starcitygames.com/carddisplay.php?product=47609
September 1, 2013 12:04 a.m.
Epochalyptik says... #25
You'll notice Thoughtseize is out-of-stocked at $30, which means the price doesn't matter. SCG is a good business. They have Thoughtseize in their inventory, but they're not listing them because they want to see what the market does. Additionally, a lower list price means they can have a lower buylist price. They'll be scooping up more Thoughtseize s in the coming weeks and holding them.
September 1, 2013 12:07 p.m.
Epochalyptik ths thoughtseize on scg pre-ordering for 25, was 20$ last night.
September 1, 2013 12:13 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #27
The Theros print will naturally be lower.
It may be true, then, that Thoughtseize will end up settling at $30-40. I'm interested to see whether this is SCG's final range or if this is market manipulation.
September 1, 2013 12:15 p.m.
I think 20-25 is right for this, though it can hit 30-40 for awhile. The problem is that it's rare and theros will be drafted from it releases to febuary, that many packs being open and xmas presents (read boxes being sold for gifts). I think there will be more on the market than hoarders hoarding. A good example is snapcaster or deathrite shaman. Both used in the same decks that this is (eternally and standard), both new cards, but still 3-4 of (as thoughtseize is) and they peaked around 40 but settled in the 20$ range, though drs is 12-15 now. They were also in the first set for the block.
September 1, 2013 2:02 p.m.
25 on star city for prerelease. We're 20 all day yesterday
September 2, 2013 12:24 a.m.
MetaWhirledPeas says... #30
I hate this card and every card like it. I was hoping they would stay out of standard forever, but I guess not. That "You make the card" card they have, combined with the reintroduction of Thoughtsieze, seems to indicate that we are in for a lot more of these stupid black discard cards.
September 3, 2013 3:57 p.m.
MetaWhirledPeas So it's OK mono-black can't handle enchantments without these types of cards and you would be happy running that? That's why it's in here. The YMTC card was designed by a tappedout user mostly for EDH than competitive play. Though I agree, hand disruption and control in general is hard to play against, it is not a reason to dislike it though, it's a reason to learn how to play against and to play yourself. If you find it unfun, I'm sorry, but good news for you, read this.
Personally, if magic didn't have this, I wouldn't play the game because I hate play creature, tap, attack, count up damage. It's boring, no real strategy going on and just plan old boring.
September 3, 2013 6:15 p.m.
Thoughtseize isn't really a bad choice for a reprint, it should make it more easily accessible than it is now.
September 4, 2013 2:37 a.m.
MetaWhirledPeas says... #33
gufymike, if enchantments are the only reason to have cards like Thoughtseize then there's gotta be a better solution. As it stands now they are used as a way to get a leg up on the opponent regardless of how many enchantments their deck has. The biggest problem is that Wizards provides almost no answers (nor any deterrants) to these cards outside of blue. Even blue has no answer if they lose turn one advantage. It's not an auto-win card, but it is completely anti-fun. It's not a strategy, it's a handicap.
I see most people happy about this reprint because they've always wanted a copy of it but it was too expensive. I'm choosing to ignore the collection aspect and focus on how it affects the game.
September 4, 2013 12:17 p.m.
The argument of "no color has answers to X except for blue" has been made since...well, always. And you know what? It's right. It's the way it's supposed to be. If you want answers to Thoughtseize , then either play around it or play blue. It's been that way since 1993. It's the same with Duress , it was the same with Inquisition of Kozilek , it was the same with Hymn to Tourach . It's been that way since 1993.
Do you know what I think is anti-fun? Non-interactive combo decks. Do you know what else I think is anti-fun? Non-interactive hexproof/enchantment decks. Thank goodness for Thoughtseize .
September 4, 2013 12:44 p.m.
MetaWhirledPeas Learn how to deal with adversity and overcome, it's not bad for the game, what's bad for the game is crying about 'unfun' and 'non-interactive'. I hate these arguments when a player can't figure out how to deal with these things, because they only know how to play creatures without disruption. I hate having to cater to players like you, because you have ruined the game afaic. Making removal, counters, and other good things, bad and complaining about it. I have to learn how to deal with your crap, you should learn how to deal with this.
This is how I learned to play magic, playing against the power 9, without the power 9 and learning how to overcome serious penalties based on my collection at the time and winning because I finally learned how to play the game and out think my opponent, instead of out punch them.
September 4, 2013 1:20 p.m.
Uh oh. I said the NI word and then you repeated it. Now I feel like I have to clarify my post.
I wasn't complaining about non-interactive decks. I do consider them to be un-fun and for that reason I don't play them, but they're not un-fun to play against. In fact, it's very satisfying to take a deck that wants to ignore your existence, force it to acknowledge that it is, in fact, playing a game of Magic in which two people are involved, and then beat it. Thoughtseize is an excellent way to go about that.
I don't claim to know you or what you're like. I'm pretty confident that you're a reasonable guy who's fun to play with, on the grounds that most people who play Magic are. But you're falling into two things that happen almost every single time that arguments like this are made.
First of all, there's always the claim that a card is "bad for the game." What this really means is that the card is "bad for my game." Cards that are bad for the game get banned. They do not get reprinted after wide play over six years. Wizards isn't taking a chance with Thoughtseize . There isn't going to be anyone at R&D saying, "We wouldn't have printed it if we knew it would do that...." They already know what it can do and that it's a good card for the game. That's why it's in the set.
Secondly, there's always some arbitrary noble quality that's put forth as an ideal, followed by a discussion of why a card is bad because it does not have this quality. In this case it's strategy. Of course Thoughtseize isn't a strategy! Why should it be? It's an answer to a strategy! (Actually, it's an answer to several strategies.) Forest is also not a strategy, but you don't have people complaining every time it's reprinted.
September 4, 2013 2:24 p.m.
MetaWhirledPeas says... #37
Barandis, I lump all those cards together. I realize they are an answer for combo decks. My response to that is that they know most if not all of the combo possibilities during play testing, so they should simply stop printing cards that introduce broken combos (because they are equally lame).
There are a lot of gray areas here, but for me the turn one black mana cards in the family of Thoughtseize are lazy, inelligent card design that diminish the purity of the game. I don't care how long they've been around :)
Maybe one day in the future I will come around, but for now I shake my fist at thee!
September 4, 2013 2:29 p.m.
MetaWhirledPeas says... #38
Barandis, I clearly see that the Magic community has embraced these cards. I'm fighting an uphill battle, haha. (Vertical cliff face, more like it.) BUT if their purpose was to reduce the number of combo decks out there, then they have clearly failed. Modern, for instance, is bursting at the seams with combo deck after combo deck despite the presence of numerous turn one discard options. You can't swing a dead Black Cat without hitting one.
September 4, 2013 2:47 p.m.
http://mythicspoiler.com/ths/cards/xenagosthereveler.html
September 4, 2013 3:11 p.m.
Ok, I've been a bit on the edge with my replies for a reason, to get this part of the thread shut down. The debate here is on the economics, not if it's a good card to play or play against, what it is designed to do, or if it's an elegant or inelegant answer to a problem. Though they are part of the topic of why it will cost as much as it will, it's a non-factor on this card since it's been around for a long while and we know these answers. We should be talking about how much this costs and will cost. Not whether you like it or don't. The General forum is a better place for that, though I think in specific decks where it is used is the best place for these convo's as it is dependent on the pilot and deck.
September 4, 2013 4:39 p.m.
MetaWhirledPeas says... #41
Oops. I was just searching for Thoughtseize discussions and did not notice the subforum. My bad!
September 4, 2013 6:26 p.m.
Schuesseled says... #42
Maybe if they made it an uncommon, or a rare?
(It is possible to have a card in standard that's banned for modern, isn't it?)
September 4, 2013 6:34 p.m.
Dalektable says... #45
There have been so many necro threads today I may just have to kill myself, then Reanimate myself.
October 9, 2014 9 p.m.
TheRedDude says... #46
no! If you have to undead, be a vampire! we are so much more civilized
2austin5 says... #2
Link to confirm?
August 30, 2013 5:57 p.m.