Watch Your Language
Economics forum
Posted on Jan. 14, 2014, 11:19 p.m. by rache
What impact do the different languages have on a cards value? Which language/s are most desirable?
GoldGhost012 says... #3
I think cards printed in the Latin languages (Spanish, French, etc) are worth almost the same as the English ones. I'm pretty sure that the most expensive ones are the ones printed in Japanese, Korean, and Russian, maybe Chinese.
And then there are the foils of those languages, which are in a class of their own.
January 14, 2014 11:54 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #4
Russian and Korean are the most valuable.
Japanese and German are the next most valuable.
Everything else tends to be the same.
January 15, 2014 12:02 a.m.
Is there any real reasoning for Korean, Japanese, and German being worth more? I know that Russian cards in general have less supply, so I get their price, but not quite the other 3
January 15, 2014 4:14 a.m.
smash10101 says... #6
It's cause they're different. Also, German Seize the Day is pretty cool.
January 15, 2014 5:02 a.m.
Triforce-Finder says... #7
Makes you wonder why the english version of seize the day isn't named carpe diem too.
For those who don't know: "carpe diem" roughly translates to "fish friday". XD
January 15, 2014 5:56 a.m.
Russian and Korean are the most valuable IMO, because dumb American kids think the languages look the coolest.
January 15, 2014 7:05 a.m.
I value every non-English card lower than the English version, because of the added cost of having to constantly explain what the cards do, to every player who doesn't know them, and can't read it themselves because it's not in a language they understand.
January 15, 2014 7:06 a.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #10
At the LGSs I hang out around Latin-alphabet non-English singles (Spanish, French, Portuguese, German, etc.) are usually valued slightly lower than English, but other non-English singles are slightly higher. It's just whatever the local kids are into, really.
January 15, 2014 9:50 a.m.
Epochalyptik says... #11
I should clarify that the information in my previous post describes the market standard. As others have indicated here, personal preference dictates personal transactions.
January 15, 2014 12:53 p.m.
KrosanTusker says... #12
As far as I'm concerned, the most desirable language for cards is, um, English, because like Devonin said, nobody I play against can read Russian or Korean cards.
January 15, 2014 2:40 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #13
Playing foreign cards is actually kind of a trick in competitive games. Wafo-Tapa is a good example - he loves foils and foreign cards. They look great, but they can also cause your opponents to forget or misread the board state.
January 15, 2014 2:56 p.m.
smash10101 says... #14
And that, Epochalyptik, is why some people don't like them. Personally, I prefer English, but value them all pretty much the same unless someone specifically wants a foreign card. I have trying to remember what exactly Profane Command does since I am not the best at reading French. (I only own a French one.)
January 15, 2014 3:52 p.m.
lord_of_the_snakes says... #15
I have a couple foreign cards, a japanese, russian, and korean Mana Leak , and my english one, and my japanese Xenograft . i really love them, but having to explain Xenograft is kind of annoying if I have to explain it 2 games in a row against the same person.
January 15, 2014 7:21 p.m.
Russian and Korean are worth more because they're the two languages that see the least amount of cards printed. For example (I'm just making up numbers to show a point), WotC might make 100,000 booster boxes for the initial release of a new set in English. But, WotC will only print 75,000 booster boxes in Korean or Russian.
Because of this, cards in more common languages from countries where Magic is in high demand (English speaking countries, Japan, etc.) are printed more often than countries with low demand for Magic.
Some of it has to do with what buyers like, but most of foreign card prices are just supply and demand.
January 16, 2014 12:51 a.m.
Triforce-Finder says... #17
Thought this might be interesting: Even in non-english Europe, english cards are often preferred. Most people who are smart enough to play magic are able to speak decent english (with a horrible accent, that is), and the translations are sometimes really poor. That's not only troublesome when names are robbed of their flavor, but also makes the rules text, which is adapted to english grammatics to be brief and clear, become convoluted, non-fluent and in a few seldom cases even completely wrong.
January 16, 2014 2:11 a.m.
@Triforce-Finder I had never considered the impact that translations have on understanding and convoluting cards abilities and mechanics.
@Epochalyptik I've seen people use foreign cards in hopes of fooling opponents and while it is a sound strategy I find it to be deplorable.
January 16, 2014 2:20 a.m.
@rache it's not a sound strategy at all. All it does is put needless pressure on judges, as they can be called upon at any time to provide the current oracle text of any card involved in the match. At any pointful level of competition, the moment you get the slightest clue that someone is using foreign cards for obfuscatory purposes, you should pretty much be calling the judge over for every single card you don't know.
January 16, 2014 8:58 a.m.
Epochalyptik says... #20
@Devonin: Actually, it is a sound strategy.
The harder you make it for your opponent to discern important information, the more likely you are to gain advantage. It's about mind games. If I make it hard for you to read the board state by playing foreign foil everything, and if I keep my FTV Dryad Arbor in with my lands, then you are likelier to misread the board state or to glance over information that otherwise would have affected your gameplay decisions.
Furthermore, you don't need a judge to provide Oracle information. You are more than welcome to look up Oracle text on an electronic device, provided that is all you use the device for (besides life totals) and the screen remains visible to both players.
Regardless of whether you think it immoral, underhanded, or nonsensical, the strategy does have an impact on the game.
January 16, 2014 2:37 p.m.
Deliberately attempting to obfuscate public information is a rules violation.
January 16, 2014 2:43 p.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #22
A card's Oracle text is derived information. You're not allowed to misrepresent (lie about) derived information, but you're not required to be helpful. At Regular REL, derived information is instead considered free information (you have to give true and reasonably complete answers if asked).
January 16, 2014 2:54 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #23
From the MTG Tournament Rules:
Players may not represent derived or free information incorrectly.
If all my cards are visible and identifiable, I have not represented anything incorrectly.
January 16, 2014 2:56 p.m.
sigh Thank you Senor Letter of the Law.
You may not represent it incorrectly. While the rules may strictly speaking, not consider a legal magic card printed in a foreign language to be represented incorrectly, if the REASON you are using those cards is to attempt to confuse and otherwise misdirect your opponents, that is a qualitative difference, to me at least, that makes you an asshole at best, and someone -attempting- to cheat, even if you're doing it by relying on the letter of a rule to defend you in case of challenge.
They're only identifiable if you happen to know the artwork (and you can't generally look up a card by the artwork) or your opponent informs you of the name of the card. And yes, I'm sure such players who use foreign cards on purpose to be dicks will make sure to only ever tell you the strict truth about the name of the cards, I'd also expect the same player, if you then had to ask them for the name of every card they played, and then look up the oracle text yourself and try to remember it all, to then call a judge on you for slow play. Slow play that you were forced into by their deliberately trying to obfuscate the function of their cards under a language barrier.
What if you're playing against someone new, who actually has to ask you for every single cards name, and look up every single card? And then you call them for slow play. As a judge there, what do you do? Tell the new player to stop looking up every card repeatedly and simply play ignorant of the board state?
January 16, 2014 3:18 p.m.
Triforce-Finder says... #25
Well, if you need to use such shabby tricks, you probably have no real skill in the game itself.
I'd also be careful about stacking land creatures in with lands. The opponent could argue that it's hard to read upside down text at more than a foot distance, and you're hiding the creaturesque artwork. Even rowing dorks up with lands can be argued to be an attempted obfuscation if they look remotely similar to the lands next to it. Mispresenting includes the suggestion of equalness by grouping when there are important differences.
January 16, 2014 3:41 p.m.
Triforce-Finder says... #26
@ Devonin
Instead of letting an opponent accuse you, instead call a judge and accuse him for slow play because he's making you look up the cards all the time. In an ass-kicking contest, always be the hedgehog.
January 16, 2014 3:47 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #27
@Devonin: Your posts strike me as those of someone trying to use broad (mis)interpretations of the rules to somehow prove that using foreign or foil cards is immoral.
It's not "attempting to cheat." That implies that the end goal is to cheat. The end goal here is not to cheat. Therefore, I'm not attempting to cheat.
"Identifiable" is a specific term. Whether a card is identifiable or not has NOTHING to do with whether a player knows what the card is. Instead, it has to do with whether the card itself is somehow misrepresented either by alteration or concealment. Players are welcome to ask opponents to identify a card. Beyond FNM level, the opponent is not required to answer. At all levels, any answer must be truthful and complete.
January 16, 2014 3:49 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #28
@Triforce-Finder: The assumption here is that you're splaying your permanents such that each one is identifiable. The cards aren't stacked like a library. They're overlapped enough to conserve space, and enough to reveal the names.
January 16, 2014 3:52 p.m.
Triforce-Finder says... #29
My point exactly. That kind of stacking with only the name visible is exactly what I meant. You're grouping the cards, and that suggests that they're similar, which they aren't. I have seen people get a judge's warning for that often enough. If your local judge lets it slide, you've simply been lucky.
January 16, 2014 4 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #30
Dryad Arbor is a land. There's nothing misleading about grouping it with lands if you keep revealed information that shows Dryad Arbor is Dryad Arbor .
January 16, 2014 4:04 p.m.
Triforce-Finder says... #31
It's a creature too, able to block, a possible target, etc. A land is none of that. Come on, who do you think you're fooling?
January 16, 2014 4:12 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #32
It is the responsibility of each player to read the game state for himself or herself. As long as I leave identifying information revealed rather than stacking the cards in a single vertical pile, I am not misrepresenting the game state.
Provided I am not concealing Dryad Arbor such that it doesn't appear to be there, it's not my fault if my opponent misses it.
January 16, 2014 4:22 p.m.
Triforce-Finder says... #33
You are concealing information if you present information that is fit to make your opponent skip reading the card names. Orientation is used for presenting information. You were the one to argue that, if you remember.
I truly hope that you're just arguing for the sake of the argument, and not because you really need and use those tricks. I had a quite good opinion about you up to now, it would be sad if I had been wrong there.
January 16, 2014 4:33 p.m.
I've seen players not only put Elvish Mystic (or similar mana-dork) with their land, but hidden under their land.
Nothing happened due to this, but since then, I never let my opponent stack in a completely vertical pile. If they do, I ask "What lands do you have untapped", so that they must expose them... if they show them, and immediately hide them, I ask again, and let them know I'll keep asking until the board state is not hidden.
January 16, 2014 4:34 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #35
@Triforce-Finder: I don't need the tricks, but I will use them. I have the decency to not make FNMs hell for people, but at actual events, I have no qualms about playing a deck full of foreigns and foils.
I suppose I should clarify, since you brought it up, that I am exaggerating my own viewpoint for the sake of getting some decent discussion going. I do believe it's the responsibility of the individual to read the board state, and to ask questions if he or she is unsure, but I don't actively try to walk the fine line between what is and isn't legal in terms of board state representation. There are reasonable limits to what you should and shouldn't do (e.g. don't make the first-time FNM player look up your whole deck), but if you're not being dishonest about the board state, I don't see a problem with splaying or using foreigns or foils.
@Rayenous: Tucking mana dorks in with lands was something mentioned in the MTGS discussion, and it's technically fine. However, most people would agree that's approaching (if not on) the fine line.
You can also remind your opponent that it is his or her responsibility to represent the board state. If you have to call a judge to tell your opponent not to make vertical piles, then do so.
January 16, 2014 4:45 p.m.
Schuesseled says... #36
I often stack my land for ease of use, even have mana dorks in there, they are tapped and thus unable to block.
Although The game state needs to be transparent, are you guys having trouble asking for information?
I've only ever had one guy specifically ask me to spread out my lands individually.
EmblemMan says... #2
Ive only really seen chinese or korean
January 14, 2014 11:36 p.m.