What the hell, guys?!
Economics forum
Posted on Jan. 14, 2014, 11:19 a.m. by greyninja
I've been meaning to rant about this for a while now, but yesterday really ticked me off so here I go
There's an obvious bias as to which new Commander 2013 deck is the "best". Mind Seize has been sold out in stores pretty much since it was first released. Folks buy two or three or ten of them at a time, then rip them apart for a profit. It sucks that the prices of Baleful Strix and True-Name Nemesis are so high due to people hording them for their own personal gain.
On multiple occasions, I've gone into a LGS and asked if they have Mind Seize (they never do but I try anyway) and someone in the store chirps in and says they have an unopened deck, which they'll sell to me for $50. Screw you man; I know you bought that for $30
Now here's the kicker... I went into a Walmart in Littleton, NH yesterday to pick up some essentials, and I noticed the MTG rack had finally been restocked after being empty for a long, long time. Guess what: I found a Mind Seize!! I was pretty pumped, until I picked the package up and saw it had been broken into. It was mostly in tact, but the top was clearly torn and I can only assume that the $$ cards had been removed (maybe even the entire deck). Four of the six decks were torn this way, so I know it wasn't an accident. 1x Mind Seize, 2x Evasive Maneuvers, and 1x Nature of the Beast. So not only do people use these decks to turn a profit, they feel it is necessary to STEAL them to do so
Why do people have to be so selfish? How do you guys feel about this?
And to the guy/girl who ripped off the Walmart in Littleton, NH... I get it; cards are expensive, Walmart is a big evil corporation, but f*ck you
Ive only heard of this but never looked for them if I find one do u want it?
January 14, 2014 11:23 a.m.
I do want one, but not enough to spend more than $30 on it
i'm living in St Johnsbury, VT, around the corner from Dark Tower Gaming
January 14, 2014 11:33 a.m.
Ohthenoises says... #6
greyninja WHO ARE YOU! I play there all the time.
Don Atherton, the one with the home made cherry box and who makes the tokens/proxies.
Depending on what you want I have an opened one that I took things like Decree of Pain , Baleful Strix , Nekusar, the Mindrazer , and True-Name Nemesis out but most of the rest is intact.
January 14, 2014 11:39 a.m.
greyninja, wait a few months, Wizards said they'll print a new batch of them soon
January 14, 2014 11:39 a.m.
kindofabigdeal says... #8
I agree with you greyninja - this sort of thing is very frustrating. Speculation about card value and hoarding for profit push the cost of many Magic products/cards/strategies out of reach for a lot of players, and it's a shame that for some people in the community the financial aspect of the game has become so important to them that they resort to stealing - from players at events, from stores, or by buying counterfeit cards (yes, it's stealing). Two positives to think about though:
1) In "From the Director's Chair: 2013", Aaron Forsythe acknowledged that a mistake had been made with the Commander decks, and that Wizard's would work hard to ensure that this does not happen in the future:
"One thing that didn't go exactly as planned with these latest Commander decks is the imbalance in availability caused by the presence of a highly sought-after Legacy cardTrue-Name Nemesisin one of them. While I don't regret printing cards in products like these that are powerful enough to show up in Constructed decks in Eternal formats, I don't like that the decks offer such different value propositions when there's an imbalance like there is here. We'll be doing our best to maximize equality in fixed products going forward!"
2) There are many different ways to play Magic, and it doesn't all have to be about playing powerful cards in powerful formats. Drafting is a great way to avoid getting involved in paying large sums of money to play competitive Magic - it's all I did for a while when I started getting back into Magic.
January 14, 2014 11:40 a.m.
Yeah I went to walmart the other day and saw 4 copies of C13 and got all excited, but they were all the the naya deck. Mind seize has the best cards in it, people ate them up quick.
That sucks that someone stole all the C13 decks at your walmart. Someone was stealing a shit ton of booster packs from my walmart. I would go in the bathroom, and there would always be empty booster packaging in the toilet.
January 14, 2014 11:54 a.m.
EmblemMan - i'd consider that, since you seem like such a nice guy ;)
Ohthenoises - i just moved to St J in Nov, so I've only been in there a few times to buy packs/singles. I work at Burke Mtn otherwise I'd be there every Sunday playing EDH. I left my playgroup behind in MA so I'm looking for new peeps to play with. my name is Patrick
January 14, 2014 12:22 p.m.
SharuumNyan says... #11
You could ask a manager if they have any more stock in the back, and also ask when they get new shipments of Magic stuff. They almost always get that stuff in on a regular schedule. I don't know about WalMart, but at Target they can even check the stock of other local stores so you don't have to drive everywhere.
January 14, 2014 12:22 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #12
Well, St. J is a good place. The problem with Sunday EDH is there are two guys who come in and make life hell for everyone else, they come in and play off of each other, when one knows he can't win he will dick over the table so the other can win. They have actually lost attendance because of it. However, I've given it some thought and Mark, who runs the event, is going to implement a randomized 2 pod system so they can't do that.
Look forward to seeing you! Also, if you are into Modern, there is a PTQ this weekend for the Richmond event.
January 14, 2014 12:26 p.m.
SharuumNyan - i definitely would have, but my gf had NO interest in hanging around while i asked about magic stuff. my idea was to buy the deck, open it right there at the register with a store clerk, and if there weren't 100 cards in the deck: return it
January 14, 2014 12:26 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #14
IIRC they restock on Fridays (We had this discussion at the table the Sunday before last.)
January 14, 2014 12:27 p.m.
Ohthenoises, that sucks that two people try and run the table. don't they play for money sometimes in those tournaments?
"IIRC"?
January 14, 2014 12:33 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #16
It's usually a $5 buy in top 3 get store credit. Not bad usually, but when they win every week and they do it by taking 10 minute infinite turns it gets really old REALLY fast.
Let's put it this way, I'd rather play a 4 player game for no money without them than try to beat them.
IIRC = if I recall/remember correctly
January 14, 2014 12:35 p.m.
SharuumNyan says... #17
Sorry greyninja. I guess the solution is to find a girlfriend who likes Magic! lol
January 14, 2014 1:16 p.m.
HarbingerJK says... #18
you expect people shopping at Walmart to be respectful of such lucrative hobbies? lol
January 14, 2014 1:47 p.m.
SharuumNyan - she's the one that got me into it! just after a few years she grew tired of it so i don't ask her to play as much anymore
HarbingerJK - you're right, but it's just an example of the way this hobby of ours works. it's a game of scheming and bending rules, so i guess that carries over to the real world as well
January 14, 2014 2:23 p.m.
vampirelazarus says... #21
All I have to say is: I enjoyed playing the esper deck a hell of a lot more than the grixis one.
The only reason I would buy the grixis one, is to gut it for cards.
January 14, 2014 2:34 p.m.
Welcome to the grown-up world, where not everybody has the benefit of society in mind.
Since Walmart is a piece-of-shit, heartless corporation only out for profit at any expense, they take returned products that are aesthetically re-shelf-able and put them out for others to buy. Because of this somewhat common knowledge, people go into Walmart, buy any preconstructed decks they have, go out into their cars, take out the money cards, and walk back in to return them and get their money "back".
This is why you should never buy cards at Walmart, unless it's packs, in which case you're just throwing away your money anyway.
At Target, they are required to destroy any returned products that appear tampered with in any way. It's not fool-proof, but I've never heard of this happening to anyone who bought their decks at Target.
tl;dr - Walmart sucks. Buy cards from Target.
January 14, 2014 2:54 p.m.
Also,
"it's a game of scheming and bending rules, so i guess that carries over to the real world as well"
You can't really "bend rules" in Magic. The hundreds of pages of detailed rules PDF files kinda prevent any rules-bending.
January 14, 2014 2:56 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #24
Ohhhh zandl, you can bend rules in M:tG....
I present this for your consideration: Sundial of the Infinite and Mimic Vat .
There are thousands of different interactions that bend the rules.
January 14, 2014 3:01 p.m.
You're not bending the rules, though. You're just playing cards intelligently. In fact, it's because of rigid rules that EoT Mimic Vat even works the way it does.
I can't tell you how many times I've made an EoT Primeval Titan , untapped, made another, and attacked with both.
January 14, 2014 3:04 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #26
Not what I'm talking about with Mimic Vat . With the Sundial of the Infinite you can KEEP the token created by the Mimic Vat .
January 14, 2014 3:08 p.m.
But still. Even though it doesn't say it , Sundial of the Infinite really just moves the turn to the "Clean-Up Step", in which you (a) cannot resolve any spells or abilities, (b) discard down to your maximum hand size, (c) all damage wears off, and (d) "this turn" and "until end of turn" effects finish.
January 14, 2014 3:21 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #28
The point is it's bending the rules regarding Mimic Vat . Not breaking them directly but bending, what would normally have been a cut and dry ruling, into something more complex.
January 14, 2014 3:24 p.m.
Meh. To me, "bending" the rules would be "changing" the rules. Sundial of the Infinite and Mimic Vat are just a good combo that fit right in the middle of some complex rules.
January 14, 2014 3:34 p.m.
For me bending the rules does not mean using the knowledge of the rules to your advantage. As a matter of fact a similar statement is made somewhere by WoTC (I can't find it) about having a good/strong grasp on the rules should be and is a valid advantage in the game. e.g. Sundial of the Infinite and Mimic Vat .
Bending the rules is more like "I attack you with my 4/7 dude." "I block with my 5/4 creature. Then I activate Kessig Wolf Run by tapping both my Green Mana Battery and Red Mana Battery then remove 1 counter from each to make my 5/4 creature a 7/4." "Oh, you can do that, if I had known that then I wouldn't have attacked.". Rewind the game so the player can pass the turn instead of attack and save his dude.
Breaking the rules is knowingly cheating. Which is drawing multiple cards when you can only draw one, play a card without paying the costs, etc...
January 14, 2014 3:47 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #31
In most REL levels, and high level for sure, gufymike that example of "bending the rules" IS cheating. Once he has declared it as an attacker it's an attacker.
January 14, 2014 3:50 p.m.
Ohthenoises agreed, but this is casual and it was in agreement with the table, not a competitive game. But the fact is bending the rules usually means cheating, not using the rules knowledge to your advantage. Outside of magic, bending the rules is an officer letting you off for jaywalking or littering, bot clearly defined as wrong and punishable by fines, but minor compared to the other things out there they need to pay attention and time too. Because either you're following the rules and there is no 'bending' or you're breaking them.
January 14, 2014 3:57 p.m.
sorry, didn't know i was going to set off a discussion on "bending the rules", but i guess i was referring to situations like Kaalia of the Vast and Master of Cruelties - the game just sort of glitches and you win !
January 14, 2014 10:25 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #34
I agree with what greyninja is saying. Bending the rules, to me, feels like when you find that one loophole that you can exploit. It's actually seeking out these back doors that makes the game most fun for me.
A favorite story of mine was Turn to Frog targeting a Mirran Crusader with a Sword of War and Peace then trading with a 3/3 black zombie token. Little loopholes that you can exploit that just make your opponent go "Wut?...".
January 14, 2014 10:51 p.m.
Rasta_Viking29 says... #35
I shop at Walmart multiple times a week, my wife is unable to plan a weeks worth of groceries/dinners and it's on my way home from work. I will admit every time I walk by the magic cards I check to see if they've restocked the C13 decks. Never once seen a Mind Seize, but I would buy them all if I did. I'm a money driven man and could care less if everyone else has fun. I'm a dick and am not sorry, it has served me well in life. I've never tried playing EDH, I've considered it but spend enough money on standard and this could help fund that.
January 15, 2014 11:05 a.m.
I'll purchase any Mind Seize deck I can find, but I'll sell it online instead because I have a soul.
January 15, 2014 1:30 p.m.
douphipp455 says... #37
I don't know about you guys, but all they have at my Walmart in Moore, OK is mind seize..
January 15, 2014 5:31 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #42
Or, buy them for 30 and sell the TNN out of it for 45 and the Baleful Strix for more.
January 15, 2014 6:08 p.m.
Have you tried Amazon? I've given up on trying to find one in stores.
January 15, 2014 6:10 p.m.
Rasta_Viking29 says... #45
I got all excited when I read Littleton, it is a town in Denver too. Like 5 from Englewood where I live. Then saw NH and said "huh dammit." I've literally checked 60+ at my local Wal-Mart...
Naya deck any good EDH Players? I'd get it to play.
January 15, 2014 7:02 p.m.
The Naya deck using Marath is actually really scary given a handful of additional cards.
My friend uses Illusionist's Bracers with it so he can remove counters from Marath to put on twice as many.
January 15, 2014 7:09 p.m.
Wizard of the Damned says... #48
A woman who Casteth magic tomes surely thee lies??
Ohthenoises says... #2
All I got out of this is "Walmart in Littleton NH" I live about an hour away from there! Where do you live?
Also, sorry about stuff like that, people are jerks...
January 14, 2014 11:23 a.m.