What's up with Shaman of Forgotten Ways?
Economics forum
Posted on Sept. 21, 2015, 11:19 a.m. by rorofat
If you haven't noticed, Shaman of Forgotten Ways spiked to 9 bucks! What made it go up??
@The_Dragonmaster I don't think the Formidable with Eldrazi plays a huge role there. He's simply one of the better rampers to bring out the Eldrazi.
September 21, 2015 11:33 a.m.
eldrazi scions as a win con and he ramps the big ones out. Glad I bought one when he was a buck
September 21, 2015 11:42 a.m.
PlanetEarth says... #5
It makes converge that much more playable. People are speculating that it will be more valuable because of the 'any combination of colors' ability, especially with other mana dorks rotating out.
September 21, 2015 12:11 p.m.
PlanetEarth - It only helps the creatures with Converge, not the spells.
But basically what others said. Making a bunch of mana quickly is important when you want to cast Eldrazi. He's even better with Kiora, Master of the Depths to untap him and a land to make 6 mana.
September 21, 2015 12:15 p.m.
PlanetEarth says... #7
True JWiley129, but it would be pretty easy for example to get a 6/6 Vigilance/Trample casting Woodland Wanderer with Shaman of Forgotten Ways.
September 21, 2015 12:22 p.m.
There is only one creature with converge. I highly doubt it spiked to $10 because it could potentially add one more +1/+1 counter to that creature.
September 21, 2015 12:25 p.m.
It's just the ability to add more than 1 mana. It can ramp into Eldrazi and maybe even win the game. That with its being a good card for mana fixing all add up to a $10 price tag. I personally bought mine for edh, and I'm glad I did. It's a very powerful card.
September 21, 2015 12:28 p.m.
It's only good in multi colored, creature based decks. It's just an over costed creature in a deck that wants ramp but isn't running a ton of creatures. There are also cheaper options for any deck not running 3 or more colors, not to mention Eldrazi are colorless and scion tokens would provide better/more ramp.
September 21, 2015 12:40 p.m.
JakeHarlow says... #11
One-drop mana dorks (except for that mono-black Elf from Origins) are leaving the format. That leaves Rattleclaw Mystic and that haste 2-drop that taps for any color (also an Elf) from BFZ as the premier mana creatures in Standard. But Shaman of Forgotten Ways is going to be an all-star ramper. The format has a lot of big creatures. He taps for two of any color, and has a 2/3 body, which is massive for a mana dork. He's a relevant fighter. Most decks that want to ramp into big things will want him. Probably as a 3- or 4-of. Plus Kiora, Master of the Depths can untap him and give you a ton of ramp on Turn 4. It's awesome.
September 21, 2015 12:50 p.m.
abenz419 - There are three Converge creatures: Woodland Wanderer (the most playable), Skyrider Elf (the 2nd most playable), and Tajuru Stalwart (the least playable). But that's neither here nor there, as the only one which will see serious Standard play is Woodland Wanderer.
September 21, 2015 12:54 p.m.
When I was going through counting them, I thought there would be at least 2 because I vaguely remembered Skyrider Elf, but I must have missed it while scanning over them and physically counting. Changing it from 1 to 3 though is kinda irrelevant to the argument, the point I made still stands. Shaman of Forgotten Ways didn't spike in price because of the converge ability and the person who tried to claim it did, didn't really know what they were talking about.
That whole thing is just a little pet peeve of mine. I'm sure rorofat was making a serious inquisition when they posted this question. But since everyone thinks they're a pro and they know what's best, you get people who respond with what are blatant lies. I know telling him it's because people are speculating about converge isn't an extremely horrible offense, but that's not the point. It's obviously not because of converge since there are only 3 cards in the whole set with converge that the shaman can cast. So why even go out of your way to respond and tell him it's because of converge when you know it's a blatant lie. Even if he thought it was a possibility when he said it, it still doesn't make sense to respond. There is a definitive answer to the question being asked, so there's no need to speculate what the answer is and tell it to others as though it's fact. I see stuff like that all the time on here though, where people declare something as fact based on something they're speculating about.
September 21, 2015 1:39 p.m.
Grantley91 says... #14
abenz419 did you consider that whoever had suggested Converge as a reason might have forgotten or straight up just not known that Shaman only works for creature cards? You don't have to accuse people of lying when it could have just been and honest mistake.
September 21, 2015 1:51 p.m.
JakeHarlow says... #15
@ abenz419:
You're right, I don't think the card's spike is due to converge. Your reasoning on that is spot-on.
I think accusing folks of lying, though, when they are probably just wrong (as in, legitimately mistaken), is a bit out of bounds.
September 21, 2015 2:41 p.m.
Actually that just brings me back to my point I just made. The question asked was, "what made the shaman go up?". So he's essentially asking why is the shaman suddenly in demand, because prices fluctuate based on the laws of supply and demand. There is a definitive answer to this question. It's not opinion based in any way. How can he possibly give him an accurate answer to his question if he's making a guess based on something he didn't even take the time to read?
So I question, why even comment and declare it's because of reason X, when not only do you NOT know for sure, you didn't actually read what the cards do in the first place. Telling rorofat that the reason demand has gone up and caused a price spike is because of converge is a blatant lie. Especially if he's unaware of what the cards actually do and was just guessing, because the only reason to respond to his question is to give rorofat the actual answer.
also it looks like I'm singling him out because his is being referenced for ease in this thread. But I meant in general this is a pet peeve of mine. I regularly see people make comments in various threads answering other people's questions declaring things as though they are fact. When in reality they're just making a guess and have determined what they think is right so their answer must be right.
September 21, 2015 2:48 p.m.
Thanks for the enthusiasm guys! I was just curious as to people's opinions on why it spiked, or if there was an actual reason, what it was. Do you guys think he's worth holding on to, or selling right now?
September 21, 2015 3:03 p.m.
JakeHarlow says... #18
I mean...just because a person makes a guess (an incorrect one) and wrongly assumes it to be the truth doesn't make that person a liar. Just mistaken. I don't believe that people who incorrectly answer questions in these forum are usually lying. Lying means that there is an actual intention to deceive. Are a lot of people wrong about stuff on T/O? Definitely. Are these same people convinced that their views, though wrong, are correct? Many of them, yes. But I don't think these users, when they answer a question on the forums, are intending to deceive people. They're convinced that their incorrect answers are correct. That's not a lie, it's a mistake.
September 21, 2015 3:05 p.m.
I wasn't accusing anyone of lying, just genuinely interested in people's opinions, however different they might be.
September 21, 2015 3:16 p.m.
The only reason that Shaman of Forgotten Ways would help converge is in a two color deck so you can make two other colors of mana for Woodland Wanderer. As an example, if I have a 
deck and a Shaman in play I can cast Woodland Wanderer for 
. However the main way it helps is in casting larger threats such as Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger and Bane of Bala Ged (picking a random eldrazi).
September 21, 2015 3:32 p.m.
No, if you know your making a guess but decide to declare it as true to other people then your lying. That's almost the definition of lying, it's very close. If your taking a statement that your 100% aware that you don't know is true.... and then declare it as truth anyways, then your lying. It's an intentional attempt to deceive others and make them believe that you know more than you actually do.
Like I said, when someone's asks a question that has a definitive answer then there is no need to respond with speculations or guesses. Whatever you say will be a lie because you can't accurately answer the question. Plus whatever you say will be irrelevant, because even if your guessing right your answer can't just be accepted as truth till it's confirmed by someone else who actually knows what they're talking about. So instead of pretending you know the answer and making something up (guessing), your better off just not responding and letting someone who actually knows what they're talking about respond.
September 21, 2015 3:34 p.m.
Hey guys I'm going to tell the truth. Everyone else is wrong. The reason his price went up is because of Donald Trump. Seriously that guy, he's trying to start making money in the MTG market. Of course he'll bail as soon as his favorite cards lose value, leaving tons of Migrant workers from Syria in their 4x4x6 foot cubicles wondering why they haven't gotten any number sheets from their glorious overseer. (Their quotes, not mine)
Anywho here's my OPINION: I THINK that the price really went up because he's the best mana dork left in standard for casting CMC 9+ creatures which we finally have. Without a T1 mana dork you're not going to get T3 plays on T2.
In addition Lightning Strike and Bile Blight are gone, not to mention Ruinous Path is a sorcery speed helping a teeny bit. There is no longer a "perfect" kill spell for 2/3s, that is a spell that cost less than the average cost of a 2/3 (which happily enough is 
, the same as the new spells which could actually kill it.)
September 21, 2015 3:51 p.m.
Grantley91 says... #23
No, the price increase is definitely Obama's fault. Clearly its because of his anti-Christianity vendetta.
September 21, 2015 3:58 p.m.
@Grantley91 and see, that's an obvious lie. You might be lying to make a joke but it's still a blatant lie. But if you say your really just guessing that's the reason and you just guessed wrong then that's not a lie it's a mistake. I know it seems obvious what's going on here, but just because he sounded more serious before doesn't change anything.
Twisting words to fit doesn't really change things.
September 21, 2015 4:06 p.m.
abenz419 I disagree, as providing incorrect information isn't a lie unless you intended to supply incorrect information. As from Webster's dictionary:
to make an untrue statement with intent to deceiveTherefore, the above comments aren't lies, merely incorrect answers. Also, I think that speculation and guessing do have a place here, as there is no right answer as far as I can see.
September 21, 2015 6:31 p.m.
Grantley91 says... #26
abenz419 Unless you tell me that you've made thousands upon thousands of dollars by buying and selling sleeper cards, you can't without a shadow of a doubt tell me exactly why a card goes up in price. This whole economic forum is built on speculation, which is basically like saying educated guesses. Someone thought that Converge might have influenced the Shaman's price and who knows, it might have. But it was still speculation, not a lie. Saying that the price didn't climb or that it was because you bought out the cards when you didn't is a lie.
September 21, 2015 6:47 p.m.
PlanetEarth says... #27
I can settle this issue. There was no intent to deceive. Others have been speculating on the value of Shaman of Forgotten Ways. For example, read the first comment on: http://shop.tcgplayer.com/magic/dragons-of-tarkir/shaman-of-forgotten-ways
The actual future utility of a card is not necessarily what drives demand up, but rather what people speculate the value might become.
abenz419's words are truly unkind and I am grateful to those who correctly pointed this out, noting also that this is a forum for discussion and yes speculation, not ranting about ones personal pet peeves.
September 21, 2015 8:15 p.m.
JakeHarlow says... #28
I just think abenz419 is confused about what a lie is. If somebody tells a person something they believe to be true, they aren't lying, even if said thing they told the person isn't actually true.
The_Dragonmaster says... #2
I think people are buying it because formidable will be easy to get with Eldrazi coming out soon. And it will be great for ramp.
September 21, 2015 11:22 a.m. Edited.