Who do you use for prices?
Economics forum
Posted on Nov. 3, 2013, 12:02 p.m. by spacecoyote1313
Along the lines of Tcg and Star City. I generally use Tcg unless its like a promo that I will use star city
I use SCG for pricing, because TCG's prices are all based solely on the stores that "opt in" to have their store listed on their site. Having said that I have no problem buying from TCG because you can find some really good deals because a lot of their stores underprice things because they list them as slightly played or moderately played and when you get them they're still in great condition but I get them for the used market price
November 3, 2013 12:21 p.m.
I get really annoyed at people that use Star City in Europe because our prices are really different from yours (by that I mean you guys over in the US). To the extent where in the US it might be the case that two of card A is worth one of card B, but in Europe that maybe 3 of card A will be worth one of card B. This makes it ridiculous to use StarCity. I use MagicCardMarket, like the guy above said.
November 3, 2013 12:36 p.m.
miracleHat says... #7
i use tcg, although if somebody just hates it: i will use abugames.com. the one thing that i learned was not to use it for Snapcaster Mage .
November 3, 2013 12:50 p.m.
The reason I don't like TCG is because their prices fluctuate based on what stores are listed (stores are added and dropped regularly). SCG's prices fluctuate as well, but they fluctuate based on demand for a card, this don't bother me because supply and demand should be what actually determines a cards value, not how many stores on any given day are listed.
November 3, 2013 1:18 p.m.
Gidgetimer says... #11
I use TCGPlayer.com because they have a range of stores listed and show an average price so that you can see fair market price of a card instead of what one store is listing it for.
November 3, 2013 2:01 p.m.
abenz419, I completely agree. When I was trading on here I actually had somebody back out of a trade because I used SCG pricing and they said I was ripping them off. I never did hear back from them when I pointed out that TCG actually had 1/2 of the cards in the trade listed higher than SCG did... After that, anybody I traded with that used a different site for pricing I would just ask if we coukd use the average between the two sites and that usually settled it.
November 3, 2013 2:20 p.m.
I have an app on my phone called MTG Familiar that has a trade function so you can line up trades side by side. It uses TCG mid and even has foil prices handy.
November 5, 2013 10:43 a.m.
Trade value I use SCG, its consisten and stable prices for anything not standard, and i feel comes closer to accurately reflecting a supply/demand kinda style, $15 for heros down fall and it sells out doesnt mean they should drop the price.
However if Im buying cards, anything valuable I use ebay/tcg prices, when i pay $55 for a mint taiga on ebay, or $72 for my tropical island, im not paying SCG prices. The biggest problem I've found using TCG for trades is the average doesnt care about condition. SP, LP, NM all factored in together
November 5, 2013 10:45 a.m.
I remember when Scrye was a thing to lol $5 a month price check fee right there lol
November 5, 2013 10:46 a.m.
I generally use MTG Price that Rasta_Viking29 mentioned. However, in terms of TCG vs. Star City, it depends on the card and type. If it seems overpriced on Star City, then I'm more likely to go with the TCG price.
November 5, 2013 10:24 p.m.
I go with tcg because of how often I shop there. It's the accepted source for pricing among the people I play with. This keeps things simple and fair / cuts out arguments. I would have to really want the cards I was trading for and have no other trade options to use scg.
November 6, 2013 8:53 a.m.
I just don't understand why people are so into TCG, it's not even a representation of what the cards are worth. First off, all of their prices are based solely on the stores that opt in to having their store listed, which do include some larger dealers but is mostly made of small local shops that are trying to make some extra money by making their name available to a market larger than their local area. Their prices they have listed for each card aren't even representative of what the cards value is. The high price listed is just simply the most expensive price listed of the stores that opted to have their shop on TCG (stores can put any price they want on cards). The low price is simply the cheapest price listed, which is usually the price for a card in the worst condition listed and why it's so low. Their median price is just an average of all the prices listed from all the shops they have listed. Since stores are added and removed on a daily basis that means the prices fluctuate based simply on who's listed that day, which has nothing to do with the actual value of the card. They factor in every price listed when they do that average, including cards listed in Mint, Near mint, slightly played, heavily played, etc. Obviously stores can't sell cards that are slightly played or heavily played for the same price as cards in mint condition. So, if your using TCG those cards that are obviously priced lower because of condition effect the value of your cards. I'm not trying to say that TCG is completely off track, because generally, it's in the ball park, but depending on what card your looking for and what stores are listed that could mean it's off by only a few cents, or off by a few dollars. And when making trades, I don't trust something that isn't an accurate reflection of the demand for the cards, because demand is what drives prices, not which stores are currently listed on a website.
November 6, 2013 10:39 a.m.
Rasta_Viking29 says... #21
TCG averages mean nothing and should be ignored... When you actually shop TCG you will find out that a majority of the lowest priced cards are NM/M and there is not a large amount of MP or even SP dragging the price down. For trades I use mtgprice.com because it averages the costs from all the main places to buy magic cards. It's fair, takes SCG's outrageous prices and the true market value found on sites like Ebay and Amazon and averages them out. SCG seems to be very out of touch with the true value of cards. $30 for Chandra, Pyromaster , just recently it was $40? I can buy it for $20 on Ebay, TCG, and Amazon. It's value is $20. It doesn't matter that the store is small and trying to generate business, you end up with the same card in the end. Free market for the win. People that like SCG seem to do so because they want their cards to be more valuable and are usually collectors first and players second. Just my 2 cents.
November 6, 2013 12:01 p.m.
SCG is shit because they tend to round up to the nearest $10-20.
Everyone is arguing over price checkers, but nobody said whether the price is for trading or selling. People almost always sell cards lower than their trade value by 15-25%. I know a local vendor that sells WWK JTMS for $80 cash, but any player trading cards for cards would expect to get full trade value for him, which is around $115 right now (and just to show you how out of touch SCG is, they price him at $150). TCG low usually reflects the cash value of a card because it shows how low vendors are willing to go ($85 as of right now), and mid generally evens out to the accepted trade value of the card.
November 6, 2013 12:21 p.m.
except the prices on things like ebay aren't true market value. You can't take something and sell it on ebay for retail, you can try but all of the listings that are listed for less will sell, not yours. I'm not saying you can't buy from TCG as you can find good deals, but just because they offer good deals doesn't mean they're offering it at market value, in fact, that's what makes it a good deal, because your getting it for less than market value. If you want to buy a tv and best buy has the tv you want on sale for a week, does that mean the value of your tv is lower because you got it for less, no it just means you got a good deal on it and got it for less than market value.
November 6, 2013 2:26 p.m.
abenz419 you're arguments make sense, but at the same time fail because you don't give an alternative to find what you think market value is. You basically are saying 'fuck tcg prices.' nothing else. Really, the value of a card is what two people come to agree it is and then either trade or buy/sell it. 'Getting market value' is not a reality, 'getting fair market value' is all you can hope to do.
Personally, I buy/sell at tcg low and trade at tcg mid, I do factor in shipping with buy/sell. What I mean by 'low' is sell at the lowest available price at the moment of the deal, including shipping costs. So if say True-Name Nemesis is listed at 28.99 + .99 shipping, I won't sell it for lower than 30 and I won't pay higher than 30. Trade it at what ever the mid price is at the time of the trade. I think this is the best way to get the best value for your money and your cards. Cards being easier to let go off than money.
November 6, 2013 2:41 p.m.
Rasta_Viking29 says... #25
But it is its true market value. That is it's cash value. I'm not sure what you mean by retail. Most of the time on Ebay you are buying cards from a business and they always are from TCG and Amazon. They are stores just like SCG. The only difference is on Ebay the businesses allow the market to set the value as opposed to SCG taking market value and tacking on extra for just because they have brand appeal and for their overhead. This is coming from an experienced Ebayer.
Try to sell a card to SCG at their prices, they offer pennies on the dollar. Or go to your LGS and try and sell, mine gives me 60% store credit or 50% cash of SCG prices. Selling on Ebay is going to net you the best return. You'll get what you would spend to purchase the card on either Amazon or TCG.
November 6, 2013 2:47 p.m.
I'm not talking about getting special deals. 80-90 cash is normal for a JTMS from any decent card vendor, and I guarantee you could do even better on eBay for a playset. His trade value is still ~115, but his cash value is lower. That's why it's confusing when people talk about a single value without specifying which one they're talking about.
November 6, 2013 2:49 p.m.
Rasta_Viking29 you could also sell on tcg as an individual and get the price you want.
November 6, 2013 2:51 p.m.
abenz419 read your first post and saw you work with scg prices, sorry to hear that. They don't know what market value is either, they just guess and hope for the best and decide to err on the side of profit.
November 6, 2013 2:53 p.m.
I go with SCG because 1. that's what most of the stores around here accept as the standard so it's what they use (I can't speak for every shop as I don't go to every shop). 2. because the stores around here use SCG the players use SCG as well when making trades. 3. SCG's prices rise and fall with demand, that's how the market works, unlike TCG, who's prices change simply based on what stores are listed on that day.
I'm not saying I won't buy from places like TCG or Ebay, I'm out to get a good deal when I can just like the next guy, but just because I can get a good deal and pay less doesn't mean that's what the value of the card is. Like I said a moment ago, that's what makes it a good deal, because I'm getting it for less than the value of the card. One reason people like buying from TCG is because they can get a good deal, if TCG's prices reflected the actual value of the cards, then that would mean your not getting a good deal when you buy from them, you'd just be getting even value.
November 6, 2013 3:16 p.m.
Rasta_Viking29 says... #30
abenz419 That's right, you understand now I think. We aren't getting a "good deal" from TCG or Ebay, we are getting the card at its true value. Buying from SCG is overpaying and a rip off.
November 6, 2013 3:21 p.m.
@Rasta_Viking29 except what you just said goes against every argument I've heard from people about why they buy from TCG. People always say they buy from them because they can get a good deal (implying that they're paying less for the card than what it's worth), not I buy from them because I can pay exactly what the card is worth.
I also saw you said that it doesn't matter if it's a bunch of smaller stores that are trying to generate business on TCG, and that's just false. The best way for them to generate business and actual make sales when competing with the bigger stores is to offer their product at a lower price, and that lower price is what is being factored into TCG's median price. Which is why their prices don't accurately reflect what the actual value of a specific card is.
November 6, 2013 3:37 p.m.
abenz419 Rasta_Viking29 you guys say that like prices radically change from day to day because the store pool changes, and have nothing to do with demand. You also claim that prices are skewed because people can post whatever prices they want. Both are completely false, as the graphs will show.
http://store.tcgplayer.com/magic/theros/nykthos-shrine-to-nyx
For the price skew example, we'll use Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx , a decent card, but not as popular initially as people might have hoped. Some dickweed decided to list a $6 card for $20, but you'll notice the median went down at the same time.
http://store.tcgplayer.com/magic/gatecrash/nightveil-specter
I'll use Nightveil Specter as a demand example because I think everyone can pinpoint the exact shift in demand for it, the Pro Tour, when mono-blue became a HUGE thing fast. Prior to Theros, the thing was a dollar rare. You'll notice a sudden gain of a buck or two after Theros dropped and some people started looking for them. Then as soon as the PT happened and the final match was MBD vs MBD, the price doubled overnight.
And I'll say this AGAIN, cash value is not the same as trade value.
November 6, 2013 5:08 p.m.
Rasta_Viking29 says... #33
@Aerokid When did I say anything like that? I use Mtgprice.com and monitor card values daily. I regularly buy cards on TCG and am not making any claims about random people skewing prices.
I personally look at cards as currency that is equal to US Dollars. I trade using these values for myself. I might discuss trade values at SCG with people but to me the $ and have to add up regardless. If i can't sell the card(s) I'm aquiring for what the cash value of the card(s) I am trading away I won't make the trade even if SCG or TCG has the trade as equal. I do most of my trading on ebay. I usually buy cards in playsets at cheaper prices than singles cost and then trade my extras for other singles I want. Works out well and I gain value by doing so.
November 6, 2013 5:52 p.m.
It was mostly abenz419 saying things. And Mtgprice.com seems pretty great. It has JTMS listed at $117 though. So what you're saying is if you were to be trading $117 worth of cards for a JTMS, you wouldn't do it because you couldn't ship a Jace for 117 cash? It seems like you wouldn't trade very often in that case..
November 6, 2013 6:03 p.m.
Rasta_Viking29 says... #35
I have never looked into JTMS, but lets say it's cash value is $90. I would trade cards that's cash value totaled $90 or less. If I felt the card was going to rise in price I might give up a little value to acquire it.
No I don't trade cards for other cards very often, maybe once every week or two. When i do it is usually when I feel the card is overvalued and move it for a card that will retain its value or rise.
November 6, 2013 6:14 p.m.
Gidgetimer says... #36
I don't see why everyone is being so vehement about one place over another for trade values. I an everyone I have ever traded with use TCG Player because it uses the median (its not an average by the way its the median which is normally much closer to a typical price when you can have a number of outliers in a group) of a number of places instead of just one place that may over or under value particular cards. The major thing when getting prices for a trade in my opinion is to get all prices from a single one of the sources.
If you are going to go with TCG Player and use fair market value (I am using that to mean the price at which the property would change hands between a willing buyer and a willing seller, neither being under any compulsion to buy or to sell and both having reasonable knowledge of relevant facts) use fair market value for all of the cards. If you are going to go with SCG and cards that are routinely 10%-15% over fair market value go with that for all the cards. $1.15 = $1.15 just as $1.00 = $1.00 so for trades what difference does it make.
November 6, 2013 6:25 p.m.
Ok Rasta_Viking29, I got it now. You trade at whatever the lowest (while still fair) price is, which generally tends to be in the ballpark of TCG low, right?
Gidgetimer Fair point, though it's not bulletproof. For example, Nykthos is ~$12 on SCG, TCG mid, Cardkingdom, and Channelfireball. Thoughtseize is $18-20 on most of them, and $25 on SCG. Their markups don't really have a consistant enough pattern to say "well if we use the same source for prices, they'll be off by the same amount" especiallly when there can be a $7 difference on one card and pennies different on another, even though both are very popular and playable in Standard.
November 6, 2013 7:10 p.m.
KrosanTusker says... #38
I've always used Magic Madhouse for prices as the shop in our town uses those prices too.
Putrefy says... #2
I use: https://www.magickartenmarkt.de/ I live in Germany so it only makes sense.
November 3, 2013 12:07 p.m.