Wingmate Roc
Economics forum
Posted on Nov. 11, 2014, 3:37 p.m. by vance3
What are the opinions on Wingmate Roc ? Specifically what the future looks like for the Roc.
It's like Broodmate Dragon 2.0, and while I think it will plummet as soon as it's outta standard (unless it's played in an eternal list I'm unaware of), expect it to fluxuate in price depending on what the rest of the block has in store.
November 11, 2014 3:47 p.m.
lemmingllama says... #4
I have a feeling that it is going to drop come Fate Reforged. It seems like there will be a decent number of dragons in the set, and dragons are normally larger than 3/4's. So assuming the dragons are playable, it is unlikely that Wingmate Roc will retain its current price. I'm betting it will drop to 8-10 dollars once spoilers start coming out in full.
November 11, 2014 3:49 p.m.
Ouch, I figured it'd stay fairly high until rotation. Great card but expensive and I'm just getting into modren so I'm not quite up to speed on the meta and how Roc would fit post rotation. Anyone need 3x Wingmate Roc !? Lol
November 12, 2014 4:36 p.m.
It'll probably drop given that KTK is being opened and will continue to be opened like crazy; that's true with just about everything in the set. The card itself is very good and offers a ton of value. I don't think we should assume it'll become less attractive simply because there are dragons.
November 12, 2014 6:10 p.m.
While I have you guys here (and without filling up the forum with another new thread), what are general thoughts on Courser of Kruphix and Stormbreath Dragon post rotation? If you can't tell I'm trying to move away from standard and figure out which card's I should keep for down the road.
November 13, 2014 5:48 p.m.
lemmingllama says... #8
Both are going to drop after rotation.
Courser of Kruphix will likely end up as a 5 dollar card, its really just a bad version of Oracle of Mul Daya.
Stormbreath Dragon is going to be super cheap after rotation. It sees no play in any format other than standard. I can see it being cheaper after Fate Reforged too, since with the introduction of new dragons then we might get some other viable red finishers.
Assuming you want to dump all your standard collection, you should get rid of almost all of it. Thoughtseize, fetchlands, Elspeth, Sun's Champion, Dig Through Time, Treasure Cruise, Jeskai Ascendancy, Bloodsoaked Champion, Grim Haruspex, Altar of the Brood, Monastery Swiftspear, and Stubborn Denial are the only ones that will hold value or go up. Some of these will still take a hit after rotating out, namely Elspeth, but these are the playable cards that are used. Also just as a note, I'm assuming that you aren't looking at cards for EDH, mainly since it would make this list a lot harder to make.
November 13, 2014 6:04 p.m.
CrazyLittleGuy says... #9
@lemmingllama Out of curiosity, why are Bloodsoaked Champion, Grim Haruspex, and Altar of the Brood on that list? I'd even question Elspeth, Sun's Champion. I guess my question is, what decks are they being run in?
November 13, 2014 6:14 p.m.
MindAblaze says... #10
I don't know that the Courser will go down to five dollars, and "a bad version of Oracle of Mul Daya" doesn't give it very much credit. Nobody played Oracle in Modern, while Courser has seen some play. It will really depend on if it continues to see play, or if the decks it squeezed into have to drop it in response to the recent changes to the format brought on by Khans.
November 13, 2014 6:15 p.m.
lemmingllama says... #11
@CrazyLittleGuy The first three are because they will retain their cheap costs. They won't go up, but neither will they go down. Grim Haruspex and Altar of the Brood are both combo engines, although definitely not tier 1 or ever tier 1.5 ones. But I can see both going up to $1 or maybe even $2 after rotation. Bloodsoaked Champion is just a personal guess, it doesn't see that much play but its kinda like Gravecrawler and will probably stick around $3-5 dollars.
Elspeth, Sun's Champion will likely drop in value, but she will still retain value for EDH players. Its also a somewhat expensive card, so assuming he wants to use it in the future then it might be better than trading it away. I'm guessing she will stick around $15ish
@MindAblaze! I was somewhat incorrect there, mainly since I play almost exclusively EDH. Oracle is superior to Courser in almost every way in EDH. Still, I just don't see it being used often enough to justify the price tag.
November 13, 2014 6:29 p.m.
I've been holding all my fetches, have at least 5 of each plus 1 of each foil. Cards i was planning on keeping are all 4 Thoughtseize I have so far, all Brimaz, King of Oreskos , Mana Confluence , Dig Through Time although I've already traded 5 of them away, the one Courser of Kruphix I have which is a Foil, and Herald of Anafenza because I still feel it has a chance. I'll probably hold a play set of Master of the Feast and Mindswipe just because I like them but they probably won't be $1 cards. I've already gotten rid of 3 Elspeth, Sun's Champion since I found out its in the new duel deck, I'm assuming it'll see a good drop in value for that reason.
November 13, 2014 6:35 p.m.
I probably will keep the pile of Bloodsoaked Champion too as its a decent 1 drop and I guess could fit into a reanimator deck? Altar of the Brood is a card I actually really like. Add it to a token deck and there are a ton of card's it can combo with.
November 13, 2014 6:42 p.m.
@lemmingllama: Courser of Kruphix is out of Lightning Bolt range, while Oracle of Mul Daya is not. It's ability and 2/4 body will keep it above $5, more likely in the $8 range. Elspeth, Sun's Champion is unplayable outside of EDH because Elspeth, Knight-Errant does the same thing for less mana in older formats.
Bloodsoaked Champion, Grim Haruspex, and Altar of the Brood are 50 cent rares post-rotation. Dig Through Time, Jeskai Ascendancy, and Treasure Cruise are rely on whether or not at least one of them is banned in Modern. Most people are speculating that Treasure Cruise is being eyed by the DCI. Regardless, if any of those three are banned, Jeskai Ascendancy becomes a 50 cent rare.
November 14, 2014 12:01 a.m.
TelleoStar says... #15
sylvannos: Lightning bolt/burn in general are not commonly played in EDH, because high life totals and long games with big creatures make them next to useless. Oracle gives an additional land drop each turn, which means you both ramp, and filter your draws at the same time. Courser's only advantages are it's sturdier frame, which is meaningless in a format where you won't be attacking with your mana producers ever (and certainly not for just two damage), and its life gain, which is meaningless in a format that begins at 40 life. And I can't stress this enough: Courser of Kruphix is not mana ramp, it's life gain. As far as EDH is concerned Courser is useless, and Oracle is indispensable.
November 14, 2014 12:15 a.m.
MindAblaze says... #16
Again, I would argue that useless is a strong term. A three color deck running land recursion like Life from the Loam or Crucible of Worlds with nine fetch lands can make great use of Courser of Kruphix for shuffling away your top deck when required and balancing out any life loss from fetches and shocks. Yes, you're chipping away at 40 instead of 20, but I've burnt myself down to mid-high 20s just with my own mana, and trust me, it does make a difference. It has a place for sure, just not every green deck like Oracle.
November 14, 2014 10:47 a.m.
@TelleoStar: I was referring to Modern. Oracle of Mul Daya is garbage because it gets hit by all of the relevant removal in the format. You don't want to waste your turn three/four playing a 2/2 that just gets Electrolyzed at the end of your turn.
Courser of Kruphix is much sturdier, blocks Tarmogoyf, can kill Delver of Secrets Flip, while costing less mana.
People who also want to play him want multiples, versus Oracle of Mul Daya being a singleton. Granted, more EDH players use Oracle of Mul Daya than Modern players who use Courser of Kruphix. But for the sake of determining the card's future price, it's well worth picking up while it's in Standard.
The important thing about Courser of Kruphix is that he's card advantage. Every time you get to use his ability, it's like you drew a card. He fits well into decks that use the Dark Confidant, Liliana of the Veil, and Tarmogoyf trifecta. For that reason, he'll be a Modern staple with occasional Legacy play.
November 14, 2014 4:07 p.m.
MindAblaze says... #18
I understand Courser is being run less in Modern these days though. I'm too lazy to go looking for top8s, but thats the word on the street.
November 14, 2014 7:04 p.m.
I can see him in a awesome bird tribal deck, with Storm Crow, awwwwww man!
itisme282 says... #2
it will go OVER 9000!
November 11, 2014 3:46 p.m.