Combat damage?
General forum
Posted on May 25, 2010, 7:35 p.m. by omgyoav
Is a creature that taps to do damage to attacking creatures considered combat damage? I think it is obviously no, but i just wanted to make sure.
Nope, Combat damage is the damage dealt from first strike damage and normal damage. Any other source of damage is considered... well... just 'damage' :)
May 26, 2010 2:51 a.m.
And double-strike, but that's just first strike duct-taped onto normal damage anyways.
May 26, 2010 4:41 a.m.
KrazyCaley says... #5
Yep. Combat damage is what happens during the combat damage step, and nothing else.
May 26, 2010 6:06 a.m.
Well, here's a thought(sorry if this takes away slightly from the original topic of conversation). Is there anyway after first strike damage resolution that you could remove an enchantment from a creature and thus allow for normal damage to be dealt as well?
Say a creature is enchanted by card:Asha's Favor and first strike damage is assigned. Can you still play instants, and say Naturalize the enchantment before normal damage is assigned?
Just a thought on how that would work out... as this would be after the blockers are assigned.
May 26, 2010 9:18 a.m.
As far as I know, and I could be wrong, it all happens in one click. Anything that changes that rewinds the assignment of attckers/blockers step. So naturalizing that enchantment can't really be done as a GOTCHA anymore. Correction?
May 26, 2010 11:45 a.m.
It really depends on what's going on if the creature is assigned to attack your opponet has 3 option 1 naturalize ten block 2 block then in response to blocking naturalize or option 3 block your opponent checks to see if there are any responses on his or her side if not the you respond with naturalize and then creature loses first strike because combat damage has not been delt yet.
May 26, 2010 9:06 p.m.
The answer to your specific question is no.
Players do not get priority until all damage, both first strike and normal, has been dealt.
May 27, 2010 10:36 p.m.
Thanks for the feedback.
Really should go read the rules around the combat step as I know that things have changed since I last played (around 7th Edition) And back then, you had a chance to interact between damage steps. Just never thought if it was possible for damage to be effectively doubled after an enchantment giving first strike was removed after the first strike damage was dealt. (under old rules, you had a chance to do stuff when damage was assigned, then there was an end of damage step. To which players got priority to do stuff.
If what I think is true, then if you were to give Hellcarver Demon first strike. His effect kicks in after damage is done, causing folk to have priority to respond to his effect. And thats before normal damage has been assigned.
I'll look up the ruling's properly over at the wizards website and see if this has been raised before...
May 28, 2010 5:59 a.m.
I think I'm wrong actually. You can kill the enchantment because it happens at instant speed.
May 28, 2010 8:34 a.m.
@cardcoin: Did some more research. Creatures without double strike only assign combat damage once, regardless of whether it was first strike or normal damage. If you run into a Hellcarver Demon -style situation, and he had first strike, and then after the effects resolved he had DOUBLE strike, then he'd deal normal damage as well.
May 28, 2010 8:17 p.m.
necroignis says... #13
wizards errata'ed combat damage to be all one step due to a number of decks that abused tricks to slaughter oppenents creatures while removing their own from harms way
July 6, 2010 12:19 p.m.
Hmm... The rules have been altered so that damage happens at once. So First strike damage would kick in then straight away normal damage would be applied without any step to allow folk to interact... but here's the funny thing... Lifelink and Deathtouch is now State based. Thus meaning that by that logic First Strike should also be state based.
But low and behold...
702.7c Giving first strike to a creature without it after combat damage has already been dealt in the first combat damage step wont prevent that creature from assigning combat damage in the second combat damage step. Removing first strike from a creature after it has already dealt combat damage in the first combat damage step wont allow it to also assign combat damage in the second combat damage step (unless the creature has double strike).
If you somehow manage to give a first striker double strike then it can attack for normal damage as well, (After first strike damage has been done...) Yet if you remove the first strike ability, then it does NOT deal normal damage....
So that throws Hellcarver Demon + card:Asha's Favor out the window... Unless you deal the damage with Hellcarver Demon then cast something like Battle Mastery or Rage Reflection to immediatly cast off the Hellcarver Demon 's ability...
Magic rules can seemingly be so strange sometimes. :)
July 6, 2010 7:30 p.m.
In my deck Steamtroller, I'm somewhat torn between a couple creature choices, based on all the other cards. I'm looking for some good know-how and experience to help me decide (as well as any other advice), preferably provided with reasoning:
Varolz, the Scar-Striped VS. Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Experiment One VS. Elvish Mystic
1x Dreg Mangler VS. Ogre Slumlord
- deck: Steamtroller. Thanks.
December 10, 2013 8:56 a.m.
All these choice depend on what you want to do with the deck. I like Varolz, the Scar-Striped a little better because he's cheaper, regens and allows you to scavenge for any creature for any creature to get a buff.
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord life loss is cool, and a great combat trick (block with creature about to die, do damage to opponent by sac'ing to him). But that's it, cool, varolz just is a better choice for me.
Experiment One vs Elvish Mystic is do I want to ramp or be aggro question, one thing you need to answer for yourself. Both scavenge with varolz for the same price and bonus, with jarad, e one has the potential to do more damage with the sac. The mystic can be part of the aggro plan also, by swinging for 1 turn 2, or droping varolz turn 2. More options with the mystic IMO.
Dreg Mangler vs Ogre Slumlord , it's a 3 drop haste vs a 5 drop midrange option. In the right deck (and this could be it), the rats can be awesome with the slumlord, but honestly it's too expensive to get to and slow to make worki. The mangler reads, turn 3, attack for 3, scavenge later for 3 to buff something by 3. I like the mangler overall.
And after looking at your deck. I think these choices would push it to that next level.
Don't be fooled by many of the cool tricks, in constructed you want fast and efficient creatures.
patrickd117 says... #2
no it isn't
May 25, 2010 8:04 p.m.