[EDIT] Mikaeus, the Unhallowd + Walking Ballista Combo
General forum
Posted on June 10, 2017, 10:22 p.m. by Ahri
Hi! The Mikaeus, the Unhallowed + Walking Ballista combo needs to be revised. You can't get infinite damage off without having another card that makes it so Walking Ballista gets a minimum of 0/-1. This is because Mikaeus, the Unhallowed gives non-humans +1/+1 thus you can not deal infinite damage because you have to kill the Walking Ballista with it's only counter.
Cards like Heartless Summoning would be needed as it gives everything you control -1/-1 which would negate the buff.
If you click on Mikaeus, the Unhallowed and look at the "Combos" section you'll see this one:
with the following description:
"Removing all the counters from Walking Ballista with its activated ability will cause it to go to the grave. Mikaeus triggers, since Ballista had no +1/+1 counters on it at time of death, and bring it back with one +1/+1 via undying. Repeat until opponent is dead."
This combo was marked as "True" under the "Reviewed" column
June 11, 2017 2:57 a.m. Edited.
JaysomeDecks says... #4
Easier than Heartless Summoning or other -1/-1 effects, is to simply have a sac outlet. Viscera Seer or anything that lets you sac for free. Black is littered with them.
June 11, 2017 7:05 a.m.
Weird. I always thought these were just based off a player tagging the cards. Didn't think it had an actual description.
yeaGO where do these source from?
Also I'd almost argue Heartless Summoning is stronger because it would let you cast Walking Ballista for free with a +1/+1 counter.
Also would allow you to cast Mikaeus, the Unhallowed sooner if you were attempting to actually combo. A Heartless Summoning based EDH deck would be pretty nifty.
June 11, 2017 9:17 a.m.
Oh yeah you could do something like that too, but, I was just looking for a way to counter the effects of the static buff so the ballista would die.
June 11, 2017 10:54 a.m. Edited.
Schuesseled says... #7
nah you don't need anything else, ballista just needs to shoot itself for one when you remove the last counter. Rinse and repeat.
Edit - Not right, nevermind. A triskelion it is not.
June 11, 2017 2:01 p.m. Edited.
Yeah... Trisk comes with 3+1 from undying, ballista only comes with 1 xD
Also, Triskelion needs to shoot it self twice as it would have a base of 2/2 from the Mikaeus buff.
June 11, 2017 2:17 p.m.
Izu_Korasu says... #9
the combo does still give infinite etb loops for cards like Altar of the Brood and any cards that effect counters still allow the combo to go off (ex Metallic Mimic, Hardened Scales)
June 11, 2017 2:36 p.m. Edited.
No, what I'm getting at is the poster of the original combo and it's currently approved state is that: "You can get infinite damage on your opponent by removing the +1/+1 counter from Walking Ballista and having it return with Undying from Mikaeus, the Unhallowed." That combo is entirely false without having another card that allows you to kill off the Walking Ballista somehow as you would be forced to deal the 1 damage to itself in order for you to kill it and have the infinite undying loop. Thus you lose the "infinite damage."
EDIT: Also another portion of the combo which isn't stated anywhere is Protean Hulk. You can effectively tutor for both Mikaeus, the Unhallowed and Walking Ballista at the same time with a single death of Protean Hulk this is because is 0.
June 11, 2017 3:01 p.m. Edited.
Not sure where you're getting the ETB loop with Altar of the Brood Izu_Korasu. (Love that card btw). The same problem still exists. You can't kill off Ballista because Mikaeus's third ability makes his base p/t 1/1.
June 11, 2017 3:27 p.m. Edited.
Izu_Korasu says... #12
the Mikaeus+Ballista combo DOES go infinite ... it just doesnt accomplish anything by doing so (ballista can target itself causing it to go from a 2/2 to essentially a 1/0 and dying)
so a card like Altar of the Brood (also Impact Tremors/Blood Artist type effects) allows that combo to be profitable ..... but it does require the presence of a Hardened Scales/Viscera Seer/Heartless Summoning style effect to do the prescribed/listed "infinite damage" nonbo
June 11, 2017 3:53 p.m.
OHHH!!! I see it.
Nifty. Didn't think about hitting ballista itself. Thank you.
June 11, 2017 4:23 p.m.
what's the conclusion here? does anyone have updated appropriate text?
June 12, 2017 2:09 p.m.
It should simply state:
"You can keep killing Walking Ballista by removing it's +1/+1 counter and dealing itself 1 damage, in doing so it will keep returning to the battlefield with 1 +1/+1 counter from undying."
The combo literally does nothing else without additional cards which I have stated multiple times. It is an infinite combo with no purpose.
June 12, 2017 2:31 p.m. Edited.
are you saying it should be removed? would it be appropriate to update the text to reflect when the combo is applicable?
June 12, 2017 2:38 p.m.
Izu_Korasu says... #19
Ahri but its a useless combo that acts as a base allowing hundreds of cards to do a thing +1 times.
Listing all an infinite combos simplest form, then updated text so that the variants of the combo can be listed with it, seems more streamlined then having ... ballista+mikaeus+Altar of the Brood, ballista+mikaeus+Impact Tremors, ballista+mikaeus+Blood Artist, ballista+mikaeus+Hardened Scales ... etc ... etc.... all listed separately.
June 12, 2017 5:41 p.m.
well like i was saying, maybe the text could simply be updated to reflect that?
June 12, 2017 5:59 p.m.
Indexxical says... #21
I'm confused as to why the Walking Ballista has to deal damage to itself to die. Doesn't it simply die when all the +1/+1 counters are removed anyway? Why would you want it to ping itself when it'll just die by doing what you originally wanted it to do?
August 19, 2017 5:57 p.m.
Izu_Korasu says... #22
the part of the 2-card "combo" that people forget is Mikaeus, the Unhallowed doesnt just give undying to non-humans ... but also +1/+1
meaning a ballista cast for x=0 is a 1/1 (or a 2/2 coming back from undying)
my personal remedy to fix the combo is Heartless Summoning which allows you to cast/combo off on turn 4 without acceleration.
August 19, 2017 7:23 p.m.
It's not supposed to only be those 2 cards. It's supposed to be Mikaeus, Ballista, and Viscera Seer. So whoever posted the combo is wrong not the combo itself. You remove Ballista's +1/+1 counter leaving it as a 1/1 thanks to Mikaeus, then you sack it with Viscera, and then it comes back with a +1/+1 counter thanks to Mikaeus. That's the infinite combo, not just those two. They're just pieces.
July 20, 2020 10:06 p.m.
JacenSolo29 says... #24
I want to be sure. To set up the combo you have mikaeus and walking ballista and the seer in play. Play walking ballista for 1 and it gets +1/+1 from mikaeus. Remove counter deal a damage, sack to seer comes back, repeat. Is that right?
April 4, 2021 4:40 p.m.
brantsilvester says... #25
One thing to mention on setup for this combo is Protean Hulk and a way to get it into the graveyard once can set this up all for infinite damage by itself. Play Protean Hulk and use any sac/destroy effect to get it into the graveyard. Search for Phyrexian Delver and Viscera Seer. Put those into play and bring Protean Hulk back into play from the Delver's trigger. Sac the Hulk and search for Mikaeus, the Unhallowed and Walking Ballista. You then have a 3 combo pieces for infinite damage in one main phase. Complicated and the triggers can be responded to but it works.
January 16, 2022 4:21 p.m.
Planeswalker_X says... #26
This is certainly not true. This combo needs nothing else other than Mikaeus on the battlefield and Ballista in your hand. No mana needed at all.
1.With Mikaeus on the field, cast Ballista from your hand for 0. He enters the battle field as a 0/0 and gains Undying (checked with judge, Ballista does gain Undying before state based actions kill it for being a 0/0). Ballista dies, Undying triggers and Ballista comes back with a +1/+1 counter.
2.Remove that counter ping opponents face. Ballista dies. Undying checks for a +1/+1 counter on ballista. It does not have one. Therefore ballista returns with a +1/+1 counter from Undying.
3.Remove that counter ping opponents face. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. Game over.
4.Prove me wrong.
October 22, 2024 12:53 p.m.
Planeswalker_X says... #27
Proved myself wrong lol. The +1/+1 from Mikaeus means you need any sac outlet to start the engine here...
October 22, 2024 12:59 p.m.
Planeswalker_X says... #28
After play testing... Mikaeus on the field and 2 open mana is all you need with Ballista in hand. If you can put a single +1/+1 counter on Ballista by paying , Ballistas ability can then ping himself in the face with that +1/+1 counter. Killing himself and starting the undying loop.
TMBRLZ says... #2
What do you mean it needs to be revised? What are you directing this at? People who think it works?
June 11, 2017 2:02 a.m. Edited.