How Good is Time Warp?
General forum
Posted on Aug. 12, 2024, 9:05 p.m. by DemonDragonJ
I have copies of Time Warp in many of my decks, because I am certain that nearly all players enjoy taking extra turns, but I wonder if that cards needs to be in every deck that contains the color blue, since it does not always fit the theme of the decks, so I would like to ask others here, for advice.
What does everyone else say about this? Should I have copies of Time Warp in every deck that contains blue, or only if that cards works with the theme of the deck? I certainly would appreciate any feedback that anyone here has to offer.
DemonDragonJ says... #3
Idoneity, I thank you, for that response, since I very much would like to put Syphon Flesh into this deck, here, and Time Warp is the only card that I can truly remove from that deck, since every other card with a mana value of 5 is vital to that deck's strategy, so I am seeking validation for my decision.
August 12, 2024 10:02 p.m.
DarkKiridon says... #4
My mind immediately goes: "Oh, you're taking an extra turn? For what reason? You better win on that extra turn or you're wasting my time."
So if you take extra turns. Make sure it counts.
August 12, 2024 10:22 p.m.
DarkKiridon what am I doing on my extra turn? How about casting a Part the Waterveil? And on that turn I'll cast a Capture of Jingzhou! And then I'll play my 8th land and cast a Time Stretch! Win? Why would I want to win when we're all having so much fun?
August 13, 2024 2:24 p.m.
wallisface says... #7
I’m going to derail this thread slightly and address a bigger issue/trend i’m seeing here which will hopefully help with your deck-building ethos going forwards.
I’m seeing a lot of posts that boil down to ”i’ve put some-random-card in all if my decks but is at actually any good?”. The trend i’m seeing is that you appear to have a habit of liking a card and then just absent-mindedly bunging it into every deck that matches its colour requirements. That does NOT make for a good deck-building strategy, and will almost always lead to a weaker deck. Even format staples need to be evaluated as to whether they should be included in decks (and aren’t always), so adding in random non-staple cards to all of your decks without any real consideration to what the deck wants is almost certainly a bad idea.
I would suggest with deck-building to do so more with the actual purpose of the deck in-mind. Cards need to meet a threshold of synergy and usefulness to be included in a deck. If you’re putting any card into all of your decks, and that card isn’t already established as a format-requirement (such as Sol Ring), then you’re almost certainly making a mistake.
August 13, 2024 4:56 p.m.
wallisface - I used to have this type of thinking! Sometimes I still do. (It depends on the day of the week.) This is an ethos that mostly surrounds competitive formats, but people still enjoy playing specific cards irrespective of deck archetype. "Pet cards," nostalgic cards, cool cards. Synergy is important when substantiating power level and merriment is important for both inclusions and synergy.
I have no problem with the optimization process. I enjoy it too. However, branding any errant inclusions as mistakes implies a single correct decklist for any given commander, which I think is an objectively false mode of thinking in regards to casual formats. Fun exists in many ways, and it is certainly not limited to high-power Magic.
August 13, 2024 6 p.m.
I would never do that to you DarkKiridon actually I despise turbo turns (in EDH, in 60 card its funny)
August 13, 2024 6:49 p.m.
wallisface says... #10
Idoneity i’m certainly not trying to persuade people away from using “pet cards”, or building any deck they wish as their creative outlet. My assessment though is that generally speaking doing so leads to a weaker decklist. That might not be a problem to most people. But if someone’s started a thread specifically discussing the power/validity of cards in a deck, it’s a conversation/point worth making.
What these threads effectively read-to as me, are ”hey I have all these pet cards in all my decks but i’m beginning to question whether they’re any good”. The answer is obviously, if the OPs intention is to build a stronger deck, to cut-back on running pet-cards.
———————
You’ll notice my own decklists are almost-entirely homebrewed decks designed to fight the Modern meta - so I’m very on-board with brewing and adding personal-spice to decks… but i’m also very aware of deck-building traps/mistakes/shortcomings people often make - and if the OP is looking to present a stronger and more coherent version of their deck(s), this is a stepping-stone & learning-exercise towards achieving that.
August 13, 2024 6:59 p.m.
wallisface says... #11
On the specific topic of Time Warp in multiplayer formats - it suffers a similar problem to Board-Wipes: if the caster has no way to profit from casting the spell, then the outcome of the game remains the same but with a whole lot of wasted time.
Poorly-played board-wipes are obviously far more egregious in this manner, as they’re liable to waste a lot more time, but extra-turn effects can also be a miserable play experience if the caster isn’t making proper of all this extra time.
August 13, 2024 7:08 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #12
wallisface, yes, I confess that I did do that, when I was newer to the game; I would simply put any cards that I liked into my decks, regardless of how well they did, or did not, fit the themes of those decks, so I recently have been making an effort to improve my decks by replacing cards that do not fit the themes of those decks with cards that do fit their themes.
August 13, 2024 9:13 p.m.
I mean, as much as I believe that every card is dependent on the deck, if there was a card that could go in any deck, TimeWarp might be up there : )
Idoneity made really good points on it, and the thing about an extra turn is that the value is always good. The worst case scenario of just playing a TimeWarp is that it might not net you an extra land if you don't draw one, but for the most part it replaces your mana, refills your hand, and ramps you a land.
The only real downsides of playing TimeWarp are that it's too much mana for cEDH if you are playing ultra competitive, and that if casual, it could be a slot that you play something more impactful. Like, TimeWarp isn't going to be winning you the game for the vast majority of them, it's not going to synergize with your deck, it's just kind of the perfect value card.
Playing TimeWarp fairly in EDH is like "0- Draw 1 and put a land from your hand into play" and I don't know, I think that's pretty good.
Also, if you are trying to combo, TimeWarp can be a good check to see if your opponents have counterspells.
August 14, 2024 4:29 p.m.
I would suggest running Capture of Jingzhou and/or Temporal Manipulation instead; to avoid having someone Deflecting Swat or Redirect your Time Warp to themselves!
Idoneity says... #2
Welp, I have semi-lengthy response, but I'm sure it's not as long as the Time-Warp player's turn.
Regarding power level, yes, it's broken. No matter the price of an extra turn, it is always worth it. They are at least free, but most often generative with your mana. They replace themselves with the next turn's draw step, they replace their cost with the next turn's untap step, and they upsurge the value that your deck can produce. Anything you were doing on your turns, you can do again.
Should it be in every deck? I have the stern argument that it should not be in a single casual deck. It unbalances the time equity for each player at the table——you are taking another turn, which presumably means more triggers and more time. I don't think it's harsh to say that extra turns are unfun for the format; when an opponent takes an extra turn, it means that I cannot do anything for longer. Around 70% of the time, everyone else just scoops. Even more of the time, they go on their phone. I prefer to be engaged with the game state at all times, but extra-turn spells challenge this conviction.
If it's thematic, it's probably not a very fun deck. So... evaluate carefully? I advise against it, but your it's your friends that need to deal with it. And it depends on power level. And like a dozen other things.
August 12, 2024 9:26 p.m.