How is Red Elemental Blast a Color Pie Break?
General forum
Posted on Aug. 9, 2020, 8:35 p.m. by DemonDragonJ
Mark Rosewater has said that Red Elemental Blast is a color pie break, but I fail to see how that is the case, since it can counter only blue spells. Given how narrow it is, I feel that it is perfectly acceptable.
What does everyone else say about this? How is Red Elemental Blast a color pie break?
Omniscience_is_life says... #2
RyuSama420 yes, again a narrow set of resolved permanents. But it's not like every color has a hard counter--Trickery is still the best counterspell outside of blue, as much as we may meme about Mana Tithe.
October 17, 2021 3:35 p.m.
DemonDragonJ Chaos Warp is a color pie break as well because red can't remove target enchantment.
October 18, 2021 5:18 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #4
Skagra42, yes, I agree with that, and I dislike it for the same reason, but I have no problem with Red Elemental Blast, because of how narrow it is.
October 18, 2021 7:08 p.m.
plakjekaas it's a punisher effect that red can get, so it's not. From the article Mechanical Color Pie 2021 by Mark Rosewater:
""Punisher" effects (Opponent chooses one: thing X happens or thing Y happens.)
Primary: Red Secondary: Black
In red, one of the two abilities is usually damage to the opponent making the choice; the other option is often something red doesn't normally do in the color pie. Black does this a little, but doesn't tend to have the color pie–bending aspect."
October 19, 2021 4:17 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #7
plakjekaas, no, I think that that card is perfectly acceptable, because it does not actually destroy an enchantment, it merely punishes a player for having such cards; similarly, I hope that black never again has a card that directly destroys an enchantment, as does Feed the Swarm, but instead has cards that punish players for having enchantments.
October 19, 2021 8:20 p.m.
plakjekaas says... #8
So REB would be fine if it said: "Counter target blue spell or destroy target blue permanent unless it's controller has Red Elemental Blast deal 3 damage to them." ?
October 20, 2021 5:15 a.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #9
plakjekaas, that is actually a very interesting twist on REB's design, akin to Browbeat or similar cards.
plakjekaas says... #1
The color pie does accomodate for enemy colors. Philosophically so. One way to justify the corner cases discussed in this thread: Green, the color of life, adaptation and growth is not just opposed to black in the color wheel, it's also thematically opposed to self-interest,sacrifice and death. That's why green gets Lifeforce. Not because green usually counters spells, but because green mages diametrically oppose black mana and its users, and grab any available tool to assist them in their crusade against their black mage enemy. That's also how Pyroblast came to be, impulsive and emotional red's desire to eradicate the cold, logical, deceitful blue out of their world. Guttural Response has similar flavor. Those color hosers are still printed, even to this day. Although since Rosewater is in charge, the effects are a lot more in line with what we expect from the colors; think Divine Smite or Burning Hands.
The power of a card or its impact on a format says nothing about their fit into the color pie though, I'm not sure how the discussion drifted that way.
Chaos Warp is very red, in the sense of: "I don't care what happens to me or the rest of the world, I need to get rid of this thing, and I need it gone now! Just transform it into something else and let's hope we can deal with that." Is exactly the short-sighted, impulsive way of thinking that red is known for. Warp World deals with enchantments too, in pretty much the same way, yet that one is never brought up in conversations about color pie breaks.
October 17, 2021 8:56 a.m.