Is Black Allowed to have "Punisher" Effects?
General forum
Posted on Feb. 9, 2025, 3:28 p.m. by DemonDragonJ
"Punisher" effects, effects that force a player to choose between multiple equally unpelasant options, have been part of this game for many years, and are usually found in black and red, such as Browbeat, Tyrannize, Choice of Damnations, or Painful Quandary, but Mark Rosewater mentioned in these two posts that red is allowed to have "punisher" effects, but that black is not, a philosophy with which I disagree, because black has always been the color that most focuses on cruelty and malice, and there have been two cards in recent sets, Starseer Mentor and Perforating Artist, that have "punisher" effects, so I am wondering what the general opinion of other players is, on this matter.
What does everyone else say, about this subject? Do you believe that black should have "punisher" effects? I certainly am interested to hear your opinions, on this matter.
plakjekaas says... #3
Your examples are not punishment, they're cruel choices. It's not "i get this good thing unless you get a bad thing", it's "you get one bad thing or another bad thing".
A black punisher card would be Temporal Extortion which we shouldn't count for color philosophy purposes, because it's from Time Spiral block.
February 10, 2025 10:33 a.m.
Sliverguy420 says... #4
plakjekaas if you google "mtg punisher cards", the first link says punisher cards can be either of those types of choices.
btw rosewater didn't actually say black shouldn't have punisher cards, just that neither of the choices should be something the color normally doesn't do. like Dash Hopes countering a spell. but thats another time spiral card.
wallisface says... #2
This thread feels sooo open-ended. As you’ve mentioned, Rosewater has already stated Wotc’s stance on this.
I feel like the second of the two Rosewater links you posted covers everything that could possibly be discussed? His sentence there is pretty hard to disagree with.
February 9, 2025 4:37 p.m.