Magic Too Fast?
General forum
Posted on Oct. 20, 2010, 5:17 p.m. by brianguymtg
Well, i have noticed while deckbuilding lately that you can't usually build a viable deck without some sort of mana ramp, or spell speed-up. I miss the days when you added a mana curve that ended up usually playing 1-2 spells a turn, one land per turn, and the only ramp available was in one-shot creature form in green, Fastbond , and Exploration .
I think that the super-fast environment brought about by Zendikar block has made us all grow too accustomed to a game lasting only 8 turns at the most, and I feel that many people will become frustrated if they are ever put back into a world where 15+ turns is perfectly average.
Anyone with me on this? I just start to feel like I can't get anywhere in a game these days without having my deck on the field by turn 5.
Any one else who has a problem with this, feel free to vent here. I don't have a problem with a slightly faster environment, but when I can't play a deck that loses simply because I have to wait till turn 6 to play Shivan Dragon , that starts to be a bad thing for me.
Whew. That is a load off. Happy venting!
KrazyCaley says... #4
The solution is obviously to bring back Counterspell . Do it, Wizards. Do it do it do it do it.
October 20, 2010 6:03 p.m.
I'm not so sure counterspell is the problem. There are several very good control decks atm with UB and UW. The biggest problem is how they market the game to newer players. The xbox game has crappy control cards for instance. Being a Legacy player, I kind of enjoy the current standard meta. I'd get very bored when matches become 15 turn standards.
October 20, 2010 6:12 p.m.
Thats the problem with a vast majority of the younger people today, they have no patience or attention span. Everything has to be fast, but oh well we have to change with the times. And that being said, with the Scars block coming out I feel Magic will slow down a bit with an Artifact expansion on the horizon. I have been playing Magic since the beginning and I have seen the trends come and go, this will change as well.
October 20, 2010 6:52 p.m.
I'm a newer player that started at m11 and zendikar. I see the fast paced parts of the game that have been brought about. I think it's more of a love/hate b/c it's a pain to deal with a Baloth Woodcrasher swinging at you on turn 4 with 3x Landfall, but at the same time it provides with a faster duel so we can play out a whole set. It's up to you how you view it.
October 20, 2010 7:36 p.m.
I personally don't mind the pace at the moment, Scars and rise have both slowed the pace incredibly.
But at the same time No matter what the set there are always going to be decks that can win consistently turns 4 -7. White weenie has been one such deck.
I don't necessarily think that its entirely wizards catering to failing attention spans rather, i think it is showing how powerful the landfall mechanic was. I think that once that cycles there will be a progressive slowing in the standard meta. But until that stage the pace will be as fast as ever.
October 20, 2010 10:10 p.m.
Uhm, seriously dude? How about poison halving players' life total?
October 21, 2010 2:11 a.m.
This is why I play casual, games tend to last longer. Usually I'm sitting in a game for 30 minutes or more. Hell, one time I was in a multiplayer game that took over 2 hours, but we were having fun. Sure, it's nice to win as quick as you can, but it's more fulfilling to win after a grueling 45 minute match that keeps going back and forth and finally goes your way. Losses are a little easier to take that way, too.
October 21, 2010 6:31 a.m.
yes, but there are limited number of creatures with infect and even fewer with more then 3 toughness, giving most decks with 1 or more things with first strike an instant win, Also of all the infect creatures skithyrix is the on one of them thats threatening.
October 21, 2010 7:07 a.m.
ilikeoldcardsbetter says... #12
I agree with banchs about poison counters, especially because there's no way to get rid of them, other than leeches.
I also agree with Alzhander about long games, and casual play. I enjoy long games. Sometimes we play 5 player, every man for himself. The games last very long, and you can never tell who will win, you don't know who to attack, which spell to counter, or who to block, cause there's so many more turns before you get to go again. Thats the fun of it. The actual playing of the game is the fun part, not the outcome.
October 21, 2010 10:23 a.m.
brianguymtg says... #13
I agree. I once played a ten-player chaos game with Planechase, and that was a ton of fun, until someone abused the planes to go infinite faster than me. I took a couple hours, but those were hours spent having a good time with friends.
October 21, 2010 11:13 a.m.
CharonSquared says... #14
My favorite format where a game can last an hour or two: EDH. I don't mind standard being fast because tournaments last long enough as it is. If you like longer games, play a control deck.
October 21, 2010 2:22 p.m.
KrazyCaley says... #15
My desperate love for Counterspell aside, I think that the beauty of Magic, especially in the casual setting, is that it can be whatever you want it to be. In the competitive formats, you know, to some extent, what you're getting. Games there need to be hard and fast just out of pure practicality; it just wouldn't do to have constant 20-turn games in standard.
But Magic is far more than Standard, Extended, Legacy, and Vintage. It's infinitely customizable to suit any taste, and the card pool is incredibly vast. Magic is a million games all in one. I keep figuring I'm going to run out of deckbuilding challenges (which I am currently procrastinating on grading) because there aren't enough different ideas to challenge you all with, but there's just so much you can do with Magic cards; I'm beginning to learn that I could never exhaust challenge ideas. Nor, do I think, is it possible to exhaust fun game ideas for any desired length or style of game.
October 21, 2010 8:23 p.m.
shaistyone says... #16
In my meta, most of the players are shifting their focus to EDH for just this reason. Building a Standard deck without a turn 3 kill just seems like a waste of time.
Then the same players will complain when you enter hour #2 in a 6 player EDH.. Sometimes you can't win..
October 22, 2010 10:59 a.m.
Jarrod_0067 says... #17
My opinion on speed is that there is a fine line. How fast is too fast? Nobody knows exactly. Turn 0 decks in legacy are not even fun to make. You end up annoying everybody around you and nobody will want to talk to you. Still, games that take 30+ turns are frustrating and painfully slow in multi.
I like making fast decks. I like being able to set up and be 2 creatures ahead of my opponents and 5 or 6 life up on turn 3. It's fun to play that way, keeping everybody on their feet.
However, often I have bought cards specifically to make powerful combos designed for turn 3 or 4 to have my deck banned from casual play within a week for being too good.
I like winning fast, but I also like taking my time and watching my opponents try their hardest, knowing I could finish them off at any time I chose. I think it's not speed that is the problem, it's the obsessive need to be unstoppable.
Magic is about losing just as much as it is about winning. If you never lose, what is there to strive for? No rivals, no friends... Just a pile of machine pressed cardboard with colorful pictures on them. Because really, that's what it's all about. Uniting like minds who share a common interest and making people feel good about themselves. Magic wasn't made to cause arguments. Something has gotten lost in transition from Lorwyn to the current day.
It all goes in cycles. Aggressive players have their place in the current game, just as artifacts ruled Mirrodin and Jund ruled Alara. Today it is RDW and Elf/Lotus cobra ramp. Tomorrow it will be about creature removal and total destruction, life gain, or even a return of standard artifacts.
Maybe someday everybody will enjoy themselves no matter whether they win, lose or draw. We will just have to wait and see what happens.
October 22, 2010 11:31 a.m.
brianguymtg says... #18
@Jarrod_0067: I agree with the "watch them try their hardest" part, I often save my combo for a turn when the opponent is very close to winning. That way, my win feels more like I deserved it, and less like I cheated the sytem. Also, I can pick off their stuff that I feel threatens my combo, while not completely shattering their offense. People concede when you try that.
Raddman says... #2
I don't see this changing to much as it seems already hard enough to get 3 games complete in the time permitted.
It has become a sad day when cards like Shivan, Assassin and Force of Nature are laughable ten cent rares.
I think wizards will continue this trend because at the end of the day most players just want to turn creatures sideways and win as fast as possible. It is because of this lack of patience that control players consistently find themselves at the top of the leaderboards imo.
October 20, 2010 5:36 p.m.