Pioneering a tribal deck
General forum
Posted on Oct. 30, 2019, 8:04 p.m. by DragonSliver09
these are just some of the tribes i think will have potential in pioneer. hopefully this gets everybody's gears turning so they don't think they have to live in fear of things like Oko, Thief of Crowns , Aetherworks Marvel , or Saheeli Rai combo.
Pioneer Azorius Spirits
Pioneer
1 VIEW
Simic Merfolk Company
Pioneer*
3 VIEWS
Mardu Knights
Pioneer
19 VIEWS
Golgari Elves
Pioneer
SCORE: 1 | 61 VIEWS
Pioneer Jund Dragons
Pioneer*
53 VIEWS
DragonSliver09 says... #3
Drakorya: as much as i love slivers (its my favorite modern deck. its on my decks page if you wanna check it out) i'm not sure if they have enough for pioneer. i tried to put a list together, but couldn't come up with anything i liked. there aren't enough good slivers in Collected Company range imo to go that route, and you don't want cmc 4+ slivers in a coco build. a pioneer sliver deck would likely have to go a midrange route. the problem with that though is that it basically gets locked into a GWx color combo imo, because Predatory Sliver is the only buff they get, and Bonescythe Sliver is the only 4-drop. the only 5 drop worth using imo is Battle Sliver . maybe a naya midrange build could work, but idk. best thing about it i see is the Venom Sliver and Striking Sliver synergy. Sliver Hivelord puts a great strain on the mana base. too many creature-specific rainbow lands prevents the deck from casting the removal spells it will need to survive.
October 30, 2019 11:24 p.m.
I think the deck is only viable as an aggro deck in Pioneer. But keeping the Collected Company misses low (i.e. 2x Sliver Hivelord and 2x Bonescythe Sliver ) is fine in my opinion.
The deck has been surprisingly fast in my initial testing. You lose some lords, but Metallic Mimic can be a pseudo-lord, and Leeching Sliver can close out games. Try playing my list against some of your tribal lists and see how it runs.
The deck is definitely weak to interaction, but I think it can race other decks. Just needs a decent sideboard plan for control match-ups, other than just boarding in Diffusion Sliver . The optimal build of the deck wouldn't run Eldritch Evolution either, that's just some jank I'm currently trying out to test Sliver Hivelord more often.
Obviously I'll need to test the deck properly on MTGO before I can come to any solid conclusions. Luckily the deck should be pretty cheap, especially online.
October 30, 2019 11:40 p.m.
DragonSliver09 says... #5
Drakorya: sorry but i don't think aggro is an option for pioneer slivers. without the lords, they just aren't fast enough. you're relying entirely on Blur Sliver and Bonescythe Sliver both coming down (and staying out) in the same game if you wanna race. Leeching Sliver requires an all out attack to deal real damage, but then you're just gonna be ramming your 1/1's and 2/2's into your opponents big blockers.
October 31, 2019 12:07 a.m.
I actually think the sliver that makes or breaks the game is Galerider Sliver . I think I've been getting lucky in my testing and constantly getting it out turn 1-2, so I don't run into the problem of ramming my slivers into their blockers. But that's just lucky getting the Galerider down early.
I tested the deck against your decklists above, and the slivers performed well against the dragon, elf and merfolk deck. Don't get me wrong, I realize playing only a handful of games isn't anywhere near enough for proper testing, but I still want to try and make the slivers work, so I'm seeing where they work well and where they fail miserably.
Speaking of failing miserably, the slivers never stood a chance against your spirits list. I'm not even sure if sideboarding would really help. I definitely think it's the most competitive of the lists you posted. Being able to play control but also get an early clock down felt pretty powerful.
October 31, 2019 12:28 a.m.
DragonSliver09 says... #7
Drakorya: and how exactly did you do that testing? no offense, but i don't actually believe you had time to find another player and play at least 4 separate matches. at the very least, i think the dragons would have easily beat your slivers. the dragon deck has just too much removal, the creatures are way bigger, and the dragons all have flying.
even if you're lucky and get Galerider Sliver out early, it'll just be hit by a removal spell as soon as your opponent draws one. then the deck falls apart.
October 31, 2019 12:50 a.m.
DragonSliver09: Like I said before, it wasn't anything close to proper testing. Nothing like it. Just me playtesting both decks against each other on this site. I realize its a faulty way to test: it doesn't take alot of variables into account, and as much as I can try and make decisions as if I didn't know each players hand some info will still bias my decisions. But it is a quick and easy way to see if your deck is viable, or whether it stands 0% chance in a meta/against a specific deck (like what i saw with slivers vs spirits, slivers felt like it had 0% chance).
I'm in no way claiming that the slivers would even be favoured against the dragon list. But I could at least see it was possible for the slivers to win. Galerider Sliver did not matter in that specific match-up, since your dragon deck doesn't get a creature down bigger than a 1/1 til turn 4-5. By those turns, slivers has played most of it's hand out, which usually involves 6-7 creatures vs the dragon decks 2-3 removal spells. Some games the dragon deck could get a dragon down before dying, in which case it was game over for the slivers. But other games the slivers were able kill by turn 5, even in the face of removal.
Again, not claiming it was proper testing, and definitely not claiming the sliver deck is better than the dragon deck. I apologize if my comments came off that way.
October 31, 2019 1:21 a.m.
DragonSliver09 says... #9
Drakorya: i have an especially hard time believing your sliver deck is getting out "6-7" creatures out turn 4, and the dragon deck could potentially play the 5 mana dragons turn 3. and some of the dragons themselves are removal. Demanding Dragon and Glorybringer . even just the noncreature removal spells would be enough to stop the key sliver holding your army together. look man i hate to have to say this, but i just don't believe you played 4 matches in 50 minutes.
October 31, 2019 1:29 a.m.
DragonSliver09 says... #10
look man i'm really not tryin to be rain on your parade, but i've been playing slivers in modern for 3 years now. my build consistently wins turn 4, and the reason its so fast is because it has Aether Vial , 3 sliver lords, a 4th lord in Phantasmal Image , and a 2-mana haste enabler in Cloudshredder Sliver . the only part of all that in pioneer is 1 sliver lord. thats a huge blow to the decks speed. idk about you, but i aint tryin to win turn 6 or 7 with a deck that has no interaction.
October 31, 2019 1:34 a.m.
DragonSliver09: The deck is mostly creatures, if you play 1 creature on turns 1 and 2, 2 creatures on turns 3 and 4 that's 6. You can make it to 7 with a Manaweft Sliver . Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the deck has 6-7 creatures in play on turn 4, just that it has played that many. Some would obviously have been hit with removal/blockers. In retrospection, the numbers should probably be 5-6 instead of 6-7.
It was 4 games in that time, not 4 matches. I didn't play sideboarded games since your list didn't have a sideboard. Like I said before, faulty testing, but just wanted to see if slivers were even viable in Pioneer.
It sounds like you've tested the idea more than I have though, so if you don't think they're viable than I'm probably wrong. But I'm still gonna test different versions of it, and see if I can find some jank/fun way to make it work, even if it's only against a portion of the meta. That's what I used to do in modern, so it's what I plan to do in pioneer (and probably historic too).
October 31, 2019 1:58 a.m.
DragonSliver09 says... #12
Drakorya: i'd recommend cutting down to 3 colors. i'd start with green of course, but then if you add black you get Abrupt Decay and Assassin's Trophy . the choice of colors may depend on your choice of removal. Mortify , Ride Down , and Bedevil come to mind.
October 31, 2019 2:14 a.m.
DragonSliver09 says... #13
and then theres the aforementioned Venom Sliver and Striking Sliver interaction. so a jund build would likely net the most potential removal.
October 31, 2019 2:15 a.m.
DragonSliver09 says... #15
SynergyBuild as i've already said, i really don't think people need to live in fear of Oko, Thief of Crowns . there are plenty of other decks people can use.
Drakorya says... #2
What about Slivers? I think they could be quick enough, and having Sliver Hivelord at the top end is pretty good.
Unclaimed Territory and Sliver Hive help keep the mana pretty good. It just gets tricky to cast the non-sliver cards, like Collected Company .
Check out my deck if you like:
Pioneer Slivers
Pioneer* Drakorya
536 VIEWS | IN 1 FOLDER
October 30, 2019 10:52 p.m.