Rules Change to Combat
General forum
Posted on Oct. 27, 2024, 4:52 a.m. by TypicalTimmy
Good afternoon,
In this article it is outlined that combat will have a small, albeit potent change.
The change is how combat damage is handled when multiple blockers are in play.
Interesting change. I'm going to make the easy prediction that I'm going to be tripped up by it at least once and lose a game.
Icbrgr Unless I'm missing something, deathtouch doesn't seem to change that much. If Deathtouchguy is attacking, it still needs to deal 1 or more damage to anything it wants to kill, and no damage to anything it wants to keep alive. If Deathtouchguy is blocking, it still needs to deal at least 1 damage to the attacker.
October 27, 2024 12:55 p.m.
I think from what I get out of this is deathtouch goes in favor of attacking because of how damage assignment goes.
Not that I think it was ever a good idea to double block a deathtouch creature... but if a 2/3 deathtouch creature attacks into two 0/4 walls I think with the rule change the 2/3 deathtouch creature can assign 1 damage to each 0/4 wall killing them both
October 27, 2024 1:12 p.m.
plakjekaas says... #6
Without the rule change that was also the case. How it used to work:
Creature attacks, defending player assigns blockers. Attacking player "stacks" the blockers in order of which he wants his attacker to deal damage to. Attacking player assigns damage to those creatures in that order, but must deal lethal damage to the first creature before they can go to the next one. You could still deal more than lethal to the first creature (maybe you didn't want the second one to die). Then state-based actions are checked, and creatures with lethal damage marked on them, die.
Deathtouch is defined as: any amount of damage dealt by this creature is lethal damage to that creature. So in your example, the 2/3 deathtouch can assign 1 (lethal) damage to each of the creatures. If there were 3 blocking 0/4s, two of them die and one survives.
How it will work with foundations:
Creature attacks, defending player assigns blockers. Attacking player chooses the amount of damage dealt by the attacker to the blocking creatures. Damage is dealt. State-based, creatures with lethal damage die.
For deathtouch it works exactly the same, because every damage is lethal. A 4/4 blocked by 2 3/3s, now has options it didn't have before, you could in the new way, assign 2 damage to each blocker and kill none of them. That option didn't exist in the old way, there you have to deal at least 3 damage to the first blocker before you could deal any to the second.
October 27, 2024 1:43 p.m.
Icbrgr That's how it worked before. 1 damage from a deathtouch creature was considered lethal damage, and no further damage needed to be assigned. Before, and now, deathtouch reduced the amount of damage needed to kill a creature from "equal to toughness" to "1".
In your scenario, there wasn't ever a point where the deathtoucher needed to deal 4 damage to kill one of the walls. It needed to deal enough damage to kill it, and deathtouch defines that number as just 1. So the deathtoucher deals 1 damage to wall #1, killing it, then deals 1 damage to wall #2, killing it, too.
The big difference is that now non-deathtouchers can distribute their damage in the same way, but neither of the walls will be killed. This matters for something like Death Charmer's triggered ability. If it attacked into two 0/4 walls before, it could only deal combat damage to one of them, and the opponent loses 2 life or pays once. Now, it can deal 1 (nonlethal) damage to each of them, and the opponent has to pay or lose 2 life twice.
October 27, 2024 1:49 p.m.
plakjekaas says... #8
The most important thing this does, is making combat tricks less defensively usable.
A 5/5 attacks, defending player blocks with 2 3/3 creatures:
Old: defending player waits until the blocking order is assigned, then casts Giant Growth on the first one, saving both his creatures.
New: defending player has to cast Giant Growth to save one before damage, then the attacking player will divide the damage among blocking creatures, still able to kill the creature without the Giant Growth on it.
October 27, 2024 1:53 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #10
plakjekaas, is that a good thing? I severely dislike all this emphasis on attacking and aggression, so I would like to have some reassurance that WotC still support defensive strategies and forcing an opponent to exhaust their resources in an attempt to break through one's defenses before defeating them.
October 27, 2024 5:19 p.m.
TypicalTimmy says... #11
DemonDragonJ, from a strategic stand point, sure attacking largely is what wins most games. Without trying to sound snobbish by accident, we have to recognize infinite combos, milling and alternate win strategies are a small fraction of how most games are won with regards to all formats. Yes Vintage and Legacy have T0 combos and yes cEDH usually wins by an infinite combo, but with regards to Standard, Modern, Draft and normal EDH it's mostly combat damage.
Playing defensively is good and all but defensively doesn't win you the game.
When you have timed, sanctioned events you don't have the privilege of stalling an opponent for an hour and a half.
So from a logistical point of view, combat damage is what closes out most games and therefore combat damage is what WOTC will invest in.
Anything that isn't "combat damage", could be swept up in "defensive strategies".
October 27, 2024 6:45 p.m.
plakjekaas says... #12
Icbrgr what trample does with deathtouch is that to not take any combat damage from the creature, you need as many blockers as it's power. So if you give trample to a 6/6 deathtouch creature, you can put down 3 different 9/9s in front, and still 3 damage tramples over. Without trample, all remaining damage is dealt to the last creature in the blocking order.
DemonDragonJ weren't you the one stating in another thread this week that creatures are your favourite card type? Worried that interaction on the stack would disappear after reading most people like permanents in play? WotC emphasizing a single change in an article or post dedicated to that change does not mean the whole game is just that change afterwards. even when they say people like permanents more than spells, Wizards printed and released over 800 instants and sorceries out of the 4000 cards printed and released in just the past year.
In 99% of all combat, this rule change won't matter, and combat will look the same. In the one percent where it's different, the blowout-potential of the situation has been deflated, and the outcome will be more fair. It's easier and more clear, less to keep track of. It will lead to less discussion about combat math, an easier explanation to new players, and a higher quality of life while playing. So yeah, it's probably a good thing.
wallisface says... #2
I approve of this change
October 27, 2024 6:47 a.m.