Savage Summoning
General forum
Posted on June 26, 2013, 7:29 p.m. by DeathByDragons
I haven't heard much chatter about Savage Summoning. Who else thinks it is going to be the most broken card in M14? I mean seriously. Here's the link: http://mythicspoiler.com/m14/cards/savagesummoning.html
The only thing that bothers me is that in it's best match up, Render Silent will effectively counter it. ' The next creature card you cast this turn ...' Though personally, I think green is sizing up to be a 'beast' in standard ...
June 26, 2013 7:43 p.m.
Does Render Silent counter it? Savage Summoning can't be countered, so doesn't that make it an illegal target for render silent, which would in turn counter all of render silent? Or am I completely wrong?
June 26, 2013 7:52 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #5
Just because Savage Summoning can't be countered doesn't mean it's an illegal target for counterspells. A counterspell can still target it, but the counter effect will fail to counter the spell. Other effects of the counterspell (such as Render Silent 's Silence effect) will still resolve.
Savage Summoning seems like sideboard material. I don't think it should be played mainboard because it doesn't really add enough. It's more of an answer than a general utility card.
June 26, 2013 7:56 p.m.
I think it works quite well as a utility card. It'd be nice if it gave you a card instead of a +1/+1 counter, but for 1 more mana, the inability for any counter apart from Render Silent you get flash and an additional counter makes it quite powerful. It may not be one of the ones that's played heaps, like Skylasher , but it's still a solid card.
June 26, 2013 8:06 p.m.
A couple years ago I think I would have been excited by this and think it's brokenly powerful, but now I think it's almost a total trap.
Unless you're flashing in a creature to block or a creature that itself generates card advantage/disadvantage, you're never getting a card of value out of Savage Summoning. It's a powerful effect certainly, but it still costs you a card - this isn't something to be ignored. Ironically control players are going to love playing against this card because their removal will 2 for 1. You've used two resources to get a single threat on the board. Sure it gets around sorcery speed, but it won't take long for the meta to shift to compensate if this sees a lot of play.
June 26, 2013 8:12 p.m.
KingSorin that's why run run Bred for the Hunt and/or Fathom Mage with it. The card draw is there already.
June 26, 2013 8:17 p.m.
normally Epochalyptik I would probably agree with your take on this card. However I have been playing around with this card for my standard deck Evolved Aggro ever since I found out about it for once rotation happens to replace cards that I am losing (which is quite a few). EoT Prime Speaker Zegana or Master Biomancer seems fairly good. Will it be great in all decks....of course not but I feel that this card could be extremely potent in standard if applied right. I am still working on new ways to break this card.
June 26, 2013 8:41 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #10
Rotation doesn't happen until Theros releases, and I don't see the point in planning for it this early.
That said, the card's results will be the determinate factor.
June 26, 2013 8:56 p.m.
It's a good card, but not broken. The way this standard is shaping to be, counterspells will be even less prevalent, unless Theros brings back mana leak or something (not likely).
At best, it'll be SB material in standard. I like to think of it as another Scout's Warning , but with more card disadvantage. It'll allow some more fancy combat tricks, but not much else.
It's good for edh though.
June 26, 2013 9:02 p.m.
Never the less I intend to pick up a playset. If nothing else I wanna have it available just in case it turns out that it can be broken in standard. Especially since I have seen very little about theros so far. Had a bad track record of nt ging with my gut about a card and had it bite me in the a**. Only time will tell. Or I guess in this case playtesting.
June 26, 2013 9:41 p.m.
shinobigarth says... #13
its gonna be the nuts. think of the awesome combo with just Serra Avenger . turn 1 you lay Avacyn's Pilgrim , opponent's turn 2, play this, then Serra Avenger (which does work because you only cant play it on YOUR 1st, 2nd or 3rd turn). congrats, you now have a 4/4 flying vigilance on your turn 3! thats just one combo. hope i pull some at the prerelease.
July 4, 2013 5:02 a.m.
That's too situational to be viable. The problem is, it's all good and looks really powerful al for 1 mana, but it needs three words on the end. 'Draw' 'a' 'card'. It's a 2 for 1 that makes your card cost 1 more mana for +1/+1 uncounterable. If they counter your card, it's annoying, and it means both players lose a card. This means you lose a card, and it isn't replaced, so it's a similar result. It just doesn't seem worth it. The flash will rarely be relevant and with Voice of Resurgence it's less viable since they'll get 2 elementals.
July 4, 2013 5:58 a.m.
shinobigarth says... #15
not everybody runs Voice, in fact ive yet to play against anyone that runs it since Maze came out. since its so expensive i dont foresee seeing it very often.
July 4, 2013 3:35 p.m.
At high levels the top decks using white and green (junk aristocrats, naya aggro, bant control) will most likely use 4 copies.
July 4, 2013 8:05 p.m.
shinobigarth says... #17
yeah and i, and probably most of us here dont play at high levels
July 5, 2013 2:33 a.m.
I don't yet. But I have a play set of voices because my meta is highly competitive. It is basically, if you don't have a tier 1 deck, you are going to have a bad time at fnm.
July 5, 2013 2:40 a.m.
My pojo is a card becomes expensive when used at high levels. No-one uses voice except for high level players because it's expensive. Competitive decks are the ones that influence prices, more than others. That's why Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker is about 1/3rd of the value of something competitively used like Domri Rade . (Yes, I understand he's been reprinted, but he's just an example). My point is that in higher levels where voices are common, it may see less play.
July 5, 2013 3:56 a.m.
shinobigarth says... #20
you dont really need a tier 1 deck for your average FNM at the local store. except for high profile stores that are well known and have lots of players, my stores are pretty casual and we are all pretty good friends. high level means you go at least to PTQ on a regular basis and/or may have qualified for Pro Tour as some point.
July 5, 2013 8:24 p.m.
Cards are broken because they are used in almost all top tier decks. I know you probably won't be facing tier 1 decks at your local fnm, but my point is this won't be broken on higher levels. It will probably be great for casual, but will miss the spot when it comes to pro tours, game day top 4 decks etc.
July 5, 2013 9:18 p.m.
shinobigarth says... #22
yeah i know, i never said this card would be used in tier 1 decks or that its broken, i just said i thought it was cool and named an example of an interesting combo you could maybe get away with at a local FNM shop, not something a pro player would use. since i'm never gonna play at the pro level, i dont really even pay much attention to what pros use, or netdeck their builds.
July 6, 2013 1:40 a.m.
Yeah. The question posted was: 'Who else thinks it is going to be the most broken card in M14?' I was just answering the question. I agree it's quite powerful but cards are considered broken because of how much play they see in top tier decks. I don't play at a very competitive level, so what they use doesn't affect me either, but when judging how broken a card is, the highest level is the main thing to consider. I agree with you that it's powerful, but i don't think it'll see much play in events like pro tours, or the decks that use them will most likely lose. I may be wrong, but this is just my prediction.
July 6, 2013 7:41 a.m.
Schuesseled says... #24
I see a lot of people dissing on this card because it gives you card disadvantage, your using it wrong.
You should play this during your opponents attack phase, attack all out during your own phase, and give the impression that you are vulnerable. Then flash in something horrible to eat their most important attacker, then attack them with it next turn.
If that doesn't work, then you can always side them out, keep your opponent guessing.
July 6, 2013 9:49 a.m.
A valid point and strategy but you still lose two cards to get one creature on the board. I see this card being viable in a deck where the card draw is compensated for in some other way but otherwise I think that people might avoid it to begin with just because of the card draw thing.
July 6, 2013 10:08 a.m.
Agree, it really is card disadvantage. It's an overused reason, but it's very true. In a standard when turn 4-5 wins are possible, a lot of decks are most likely to only see 11-13 cards in a game. Every card they draw needs to be efficient, so cards that explicitly enable other cards (savage summoning) aren't really good.
That being said, I can see savage summoning being a 1-2 of in a SB, or being used to enable flash blockers, a la resto-angel style.
Is it good? Yes.
Is it good in standard? Not this summer standard, but maybe in the fall.
Is it broken? Definitely not.
July 6, 2013 10:16 a.m.
shinobigarth says... #27
so far i think the card i like most is Fiendslayer Paladin.
July 6, 2013 4:42 p.m.
Render Silent wouldnt counter Savage Summoning. The creature gets Flash, so in response to Render Silent you can Flash in whatever creature you were going to Play. Remember, Flash is Instant speed.
July 16, 2013 2:17 a.m.
Fierce, almost. You play render silent in respnse to summoning. To render silent resolves, and it gets flash only after the can't cast restriction has already been placed on you.
July 16, 2013 2:20 a.m.
Schuesseled says... #30
its only gets flash after savage summoning resolves, so if render silent resolves first you are buggered. But no one runs render silent so it is a moot point.
July 16, 2013 7:59 a.m.
U/W control may start to see Render Silent in a few combo/control decks.
Combined with "Elite Arcanist", it means no spells for your opponent (excluding "cannot be countered" spells.)
I don't think people will start playing Render Silent just to hose this card though... but that's largely because I don't see people playing this card.
July 16, 2013 8:22 a.m.
Schuesseled says... #32
With Silence being reprinted, no one is going to play that junk.
July 16, 2013 8:24 a.m.
Render Silent , Silence , Aurelia's Fury = 'murica, shutting up the world.
July 16, 2013 8:50 a.m.
I have no idea how someone would think Silence is good, but Render Silent is "junk".
With an instant speed removal in hand at the beginning of their turn, Silence becomes useless. They just play it in response to Silence , and there goes your board state.
With Render Silent , you become the responder. They go to cast their removal, and you prevent it... and tack on a Silence .
Silence only has a benefit of being 2CMC cheaper... but in a control build, you are needing/wanting to leave that mana open for other things anyway (Sphinx's Revelation , Azorius Charm ... etc.)
There are uses for Silence ... playable up to 2 turns earlier, thus locking them down until you get setup... Preventing the odd "can't be countered" sorcery spell (Supreme Verdict ), that you think is coming (but with so few "look at players hand" currently in standard, this is unreliable)
July 16, 2013 9:14 a.m.
Forgot to mention how "getting rid of the spell", is MUCH better than simply preventing then from casting it for one turn. With Silence , you get the tempo advantage in exchange for a card... with Render Silent , you get tempo advantage, and there is no card loss (card for card exchange).
Whatever they wanted to cast, with Silence , they wait a turn... with Render Silent , they wait a turn, and then they are out of luck; the card is gone.
July 16, 2013 9:20 a.m.
I play a Legacy Junk deck that has found a happy home for Savage Summoning ... I can leave lands untapped going into opponent's turn, leaving open the threat of Abrupt Decay or Swords to Plowshares , then cast either a +1/+1 Dark Confidant or Stoneforge Mystic at the end of their turn just in time to draw 2 or equip my creature with a freshly fetched Sword of Fire and Ice or Umezawa's Jitte . No '2 for 1' issues, and my control opponents have been hating it! I would not call Savage Summoning broken, but it might have a place among the timeless cards of MTG.
Devonin says... #2
I'd almost rather have the card draw from Insist
June 26, 2013 7:39 p.m.