"Spike-y" things to I can do?
General forum
Posted on Feb. 15, 2016, 12:22 a.m. by Metroid_Hybrid
Okay, so up until this point I've only played mtg at the casual & LGS level, but now these's an SCG Open coming to town, I'm going to enter. The thing I'm wanting to know is what kind of general doucheyness are the "Spikes" going to throw at me, and what kind of "Spikey" tactics am I allowed to take advantage myself?
Example: My opponent cracks a fetch land at the end of my turn, grabs it, shuffles, but doesn't offer me to cut before proceeding with their turn; I can yell for a judge and they'll get penalized for it. Correct?
Another example: Someone casts Slaughter Pact, but their next turn they draw before paying the required 
; I call for a judge & they lose the game. Correct?
I'm the kind of person who believes in the old saying: "Knowledge is Power", and I want to walk into this event with every advantage I can muster. I don't want to be "that guy", but there's another old saying to the effect of: "To beat a monster; you must think like a monster". So, putting on my "Spike" hat, what other kind of technicalities could I expect to face? Because I want to go as far as I can in this, and I don't want my run to be cut short simply because I still had my friendly LGS mentality still in gear..
the first example you should just cut it anyway, if they complain, then it's their fault.
THe Second example, it's literally phase order and normally this should be pointed out. But they're going to have to pay the cost anyway or lose so it doesn't really matter.
February 15, 2016 2:11 a.m.
Raging_Squiggle says... #4
I can't offer any advice for the Spike-ness itself, as I have not participated in tournaments or Opens, but I'd recommend avoiding calling a judge every 5 minutes and for mundane reasons, as it makes you look like a dick, to put it bluntly, trying to exploit every little rule infraction that could be dealt with just between you and the player. That being said, if you think a judge should be called, feel free to, just use discretion on when you think it's worthy of a judge call.
If your opponent does not offer to have you cut his deck, politely tell him you would like to do so. If he refuses, at that time it is recommended to call a judge because you have every right to cut his deck, just as he has every right to cut yours.
And no, you cannot force an opponent to lose for accidentally missing his Slaughter Pact trigger. Yes, you call a judge over for that. But the remedy here is that as long as it has not been a full turn cycle since the ability was suppose to happen, it is immediately put on to the stack instead of rewinding the game back.
February 15, 2016 3:46 a.m.
JakeHarlow says... #5
Don't be a douchie rules lawyer that tries to get his/her opponent penalized for every little thing. Make sure your opponents follow the rules at all times and be both vocal and vigilant about this. However, there is a difference between being fastidious about the game and being a dick. Obviously, though, if somebody is cheating intentionally, make sure that they pay the price for it.
Other than that, play slowly but deliberately. Do literally every step of your turn and every passage of priority by the book. If you do, your results will improve and you'll usually notice if your opponents do things improperly.
February 15, 2016 3:55 a.m.
Metroid_Hybrid says... #6
Again, as I stated, I don't want to be a dick; I don't want to be "that guy" like someone said "who calls the judges every five minutes". I'm just wondering, in general, what kind of underhanded things might be used against ME, and if I learn something that will help me "win" in an alternative way: super.. One weird example someone told me about he saw on YouTube, this guy was losing I guess, and he made it look like he did a few things and then offered the other guy to cut his deck. The other guy accepted & cut his deck, and the first guy immediately called over a judge & had the guy lose/DQ'ed/etc for cutting his deck for "no reason".. Now of course it is worth mentioning that the guy was later DQ'ed or banned for his cheaty shenanigans, but the other guy still suffered a loss for it as well.. I don't want to be either guy in that example..
February 15, 2016 6:42 a.m.
lemmingllama says... #7
Don't expect anything bad, most players are nice. Just have nice tight play. I would also recommend vocalizing what you are doing. Having the other players understand exactly what's going on is best.
Also for your first situation, always ask to cut their deck once they finish shuffling if they don't present. If they do draw a card, it means they have drawn an extra card and you should call a judge. Try to stop them before they draw if you do see them.
Similarly, on that second one, once they have drawn a card, they have chosen the default action for Slaughter Pact to be losing the game. Inform them, and if they argue then call a judge over. Most players will be upset but also understand that missing pact triggers is a game loss.
February 15, 2016 7:58 a.m.
ducttapedeckbox says... #8
At my last FNM, my opponent tried to counter Dragonlord Dromoka. They then, after it resolved, tried to Dig at the end of my turn. Since it was just an FNM and a rather casual one at that, I just spun the card around and had them rewind the play.
Had I been at a competitive event, I think the only word I would need to say after either instance was "ok," passing priority back. Then you call a judge to explain the situation to your opponent.
February 15, 2016 8:17 a.m.
Gidgetimer says... #9
First off at competitive REL you are required to randomize their deck. It is required so you can not choose to not and you must randomize, not just cut. And secondly losing the game for missed pact triggers is just how the cards work. There is nothing douchey about playing by the rules. In the IPG the additional remedy for a missed trigger with a default option is to do the default option. In the case of pacts this is the controller losing the game.
February 15, 2016 8:58 a.m.
PasorofMuppets says... #10
Your focus for doing well should really just be improving your play and knowing the field, rather then trying to angle shoot or worrying about your opponents doing it. I'm not making a comment on your skill level (everyone can improve).
The best you can do is know how cards and rules work and call a judge if something happens in violation of that. I would not follow the advice of whoever said to not call a judge for things that can be 'solved between you and your opponent' -- judges are there so you don't have to do that. The best way you're going to learn about playing at comp REL is to just play at comp REL more.
Like, a 'good spike' doesn't angle shoot like you're talking about, they just know how to play the game. Your example of Slaughter Pact is just how the card works (as others have mentioned) and your other examples are so rare and corner-case they're about as worth talking about as 'what do I do if my opponent is a dog?' (That is to say they are meaningless discussion points)
February 15, 2016 9:15 a.m. Edited.
Epochalyptik says... #11
I should point out that being a spike is wholly different from being a dick.
Spikes play to win. That's their objective. But they still play within whatever social context exists for the game.
Calling out rules violations is fine, but don't nitpick over technicalities that are, for all practical purposes, perfectly understandable and acceptable within your context.
Opponent doesn't ask you to cut at FNM? Remind him or her and offer to cut. No need to yell for help. Notice an opponent drawing an extra card at Competitive REL? Call a judge immediately.
ToolmasterOfBrainerd says... #2
It is unlikely that anyone's going to be a dick to you about complex interactions and it is only going to get you a lot of disrespect if you try to do it yourself. Know the rules, for sure, but don't exploit them.
I'm not sure exactly if you could get your opponent a game loss for forgetting a mandatory trigger; I'm pretty sure the game rewinds, or something like that, but it's just unfun for the community to do stuff like that.
I've personally never been to a SCG Open, so take what I say with a grain of salt, but I find it hard to believe that that sort of behavior is common. Definitely some people are like that; it's unavoidable, but there is a difference between a spike and a dick, and I recommend sticking to the former rather than the latter.
Good luck though!
February 15, 2016 1:25 a.m. Edited.