The Pinkerton thing
General forum
Posted on May 1, 2023, 6:19 p.m. by legendofa
This is a very recent and very controversial event. I'm trying to learn more about the sequence of events and determine the appropriate response, not start a flame war, and I'm not sure this thread won't be closed on sight. Please be respectful to each other and the people involved.
Here's the story as I understand it, so some details might might missing or off, and I hope to get those right.
An online reviewer, through a third party, was mistakenly given a box of March of the Machine: The Aftermath before it was due to be released, instead of the requested and similarly named March of the Machine. The reviewer filmed a box opening with the misdelivered box. Wizards of the Coast responded by sending a Pinkerton agent to retrieve the cards without warning the reviewer. The agent was forceful, threatening the reviewer's wife with jail time and physically shoving her. The reviewer returned the cards as requested. WotC contacted him, requested that the video be removed, apologized for providing the wrong product, and offered compensation. The reviewer removed the video, then released a statement detailing what had happened.
Things I'm inferring from this and past knowledge:
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The Pinkerton Agency is known for being one of the foremost security and loss prevention agencies, and their services have been used by other companies in similar circumstances. It is also known for anti-union activity, and has a reputation for thuggish behavior and unnecessarily harsh treatment of their subjects (up to and including murder charges).
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The main source for the story is the reviewer himself.
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Wizards of the Coast followed established protocol, and use of loss retrieval agents is expected in this and similar scenarios.
Things I don't know:
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Would it have been appropriate and/or legal to send a WotC representative with the Pinkerton agent, or alert the reviewer that a loss collection agent was being sent?
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How common is it for a company to immediately send a loss retrieval agent without any prior contact? Do other entertainment companies do this with other physical or digital games?
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Are there any alternative loss collection agencies WotC could have used? What would be the pros and cons of using a different agency?
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Did the reviewer discover the error before filming, or live on camera?
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How reliable of a source is the reviewer?
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Was the agent instructed to begin aggressively, either in this specific case or in general? Or did he independently, to quote the meme, choose violence?
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How typical was the agent's behavior for this sort of procedure?
I'm not in any way trying to suggest the story is a lie, or distorted, or anything. I'm simply trying to get a feel for how big a deal this really is. There's lots of outrage online, but a corner of my brain keeps suggesting that the only reason this has blown up is because of the controversies around the agency used and the general feeling of ongoing mismanagement on the part of WotC and Hasbro. I can't shake the feeling that this is only a big deal because the reviewer went public with it, that a relatively minor event is being built up to be a major scandal, and I want to know how accurate that feeling is.
Sending a lawyer would have accomplished the same goal on Wizard's part. By involving the Pinkertons Wizards just created a headache PR for themselves.
May 1, 2023 8:37 p.m.
TypicalTimmy says... #4
I'd have told the guy to fuck off and slam the door in his face. If WOTC wants their cards back they can sue and I'd have brought the receipt to court.
I understand possibly the merchandise was stolen by the vendor, but it was legally sold on the shelves.
Although this does raise a question as to how the barcodes worked if the product line isn't released yet. Then again, we've all seen or had a barcode missing or not reading and the cashier just types in the number of code manually. If a box of MTG cards popped up, the cashier could very easily have just clicked that item.
Happened to me, at Target. I had a draft box on the shelf at Target and they sold it to me. A full, sealed, box of like six draft packs. I sold it to a user here, actually.
May 1, 2023 8:57 p.m.
TypicalTimmy says... #5
I'm sorry, need to make a correction.
It was a sealed box of Midnight Hunt prerelease kits.
Somehow Target got a case. They let me buy it for like $49.99 or something.
May 1, 2023 9:59 p.m.
shadow63 Should WotC have contacted the guy? It seems to me like loss collection agencies would request, if not require, zero advance notice to prevent anything from being squirreled away. That's totally my guess, though, and I could be way off base.
Abaques Would a lawyer have accomplished the same thing? A negotiation would surely have gone better than what did happen, but does WotC have a specific "community interface" lawyer or whatever, and would they be authorized and able to retrieve missing product? Even though this guy doesn't appear to have done anything criminal, when dealing with lost product, I don't think it would be safe to assume there's not a shotgun pointed at you from behind the door.
TypicalTimmy My understanding was he got it second hand, like his friend ordered it from WotC as a business owner on his behalf. Is that wrong, and MOM Aftermath was sitting openly on a store shelf?
I know I'm asking a lot of questions that people might not have answers to, but I want to know if the anger is justified.
May 1, 2023 10:19 p.m.
To be frank, I’m not sure I believe the “strong arm” story - the YouTuber doesn’t seem like the most trustworthy source of information, and playing to your viewers’ (many of whom probably have played BioShock or Red Dead) perceptions is a great way to turn your fifteen minutes of internet fame into twenty.
I mean, let’s take what we know about him - he had something he knew he should not, then decided to reveal the product in a way which got him the most possible attention . . . and in a way that actively hurt other streamers who rely on spoilers for views, players who didn’t want spoilers so rapidly after a set dropped (a common complaint among players), and Wizards, who has been trying to slow down the omnipresent spoilers this year. I find it rather hard to trust the stories of a guy who, at best, comes off a bit like an inconsiderate fool.
And, even assuming he is correct, passing blame onto Wizards seems like a bit of a stretch. The Pinkertons might be the most famous private eyes out there, but they’re still private eyes. As someone who has hired a lot of private eyes, some are great; some are terrible - you can’t always know what you get.
A few other points:
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You never want to send an employee. The reason you hire a private eye is to ensure an expert on loss retrieval is there and you are protecting your employees from being in the middle of a potential hairy situation. More importantly, it keeps your employees from being witnesses. That goes doubly so for your lawyers (I keep seeing the “they could have sent a lawyer” argument - it’s a dumb argument). Avoiding becoming a witness is a major part of a lawyer’s job - they can’t really represent Wizards if they also are a witness.
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We don’t actually know what steps were taken to contact him first. He could have ignored emails or calls, or Wizards might have lacked the ability to track him down (tracking people is a big part of why you hire a private eye).
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The Pinkertons, despite their rather nasty history, are the biggest and best name in the business. They have resources and a national reach in a way that no rival really has - and all of that is pretty important when trying to track down an internet person.
All told, yeah, this looks bad from a PR stance, but probably was either not as bad as self-reported, or, if it was, was bad in a way that should be attributed to the specific individuals at play, not Wizards directly.
May 1, 2023 10:27 p.m.
Caerwyn Did he actually know he had the wrong product before filming? How similar are the product packages, especially if at least two other people who should know better handled it before him?
One of my questions is if he discovered the error live on camera, during a livestream. The more professional thing to do would have been to stop the stream and notify WotC instead of continuing, but if he had an accidental scoop, well, internet priority counts for a lot these days. If he knew it was an error going into filming, though, that's not a good look for him.
May 1, 2023 10:41 p.m.
The packaging in the video very, very, very clearly says “Aftermath” on it. It would have been extremely hard to miss. Without having seen the video - I don’t like leaks and have no respect for those who leak content - but having seen some still images from it in articles, I feel fairly confident in saying he knew exactly what he was opening.
If he did indicate on the video he didn’t know what he had, that would only decrease my trust of him - it would prove he is either a liar or a fool, and neither is a trustworthy source.
May 1, 2023 10:56 p.m.
Caerwyn I checked out some of those images, and while the March of the Machine logo itself is the same, I agree that the Aftermath is prominent enough to reasonably distinguish it. The bundles have a clearly legible logo, and the collector booster boxes have a completely different presentation.
And I have to modify my earlier comment that "he got it second hand, like his friend ordered it from WotC as a business owner on his behalf." The person he bought it from wasn't knowledgeable about M:tG, but had experience in other trading card games. I'm currently unsure if the friend received the shipment from WotC, of there were additional steps.
May 2, 2023 12:54 a.m.
legendofa I mean the guy could have gotten rid of the stuff or said he didn't have it to the Pinkertons. But I belive wotc should have contacted him first and tried to get the issue I'm a more civil manner
Caerwyn the pinkertons are known to be aggressive
May 2, 2023 11:07 a.m.
shadow63 - A lot has changed since 1937. The Pinkertons started rebranding almost a century ago, have changed hands multiple times, and have a successful recent history of staying out of the news for aggressive reasons. In fact, you’ll be hard pressed to find anything on them, other than some recent, non-aggressive spying for Amazon (not great; but also not aggressive) and an incident where a subcontractor was accused of murder, but had the charges dismissed (also not great, but not one of their employees, and a prosecutor clearly determined the killing may have been lawful).
Had Wizards hired the Pinkertons in 1923 to track down their property, I would be inclined to believe that some shady things went on and ascribe that blame to Wizards for hiring someone so aggressive. But in 2023? It was perfectly readable for Wizards to hire them and expect professional, non-aggressive tactics. If there were aggressive tactics employed (and that’s a big “if” - the leaker is hardly a reliable source), that falls on the Pinkertons, not on Wizards, and it is unfair to blame Wizards because their reasonable choice dropped the ball.
May 2, 2023 12:20 p.m.
You'd have to be an absolute idiot not to realise you had gotten the wrong set of cards.
You'd have to be an idiot to video yourself opening those cards, ahead of their prerelease, and then putting that online.
I have no problems with Wizards doing something legal to get those cards back.
If the Pinkerton agent was rough, I think that is out of line.
The moral of the story?
Don't post images of cards prior to their prerelease.
June 1, 2023 11:17 a.m.
TypicalTimmy says... #14
I would have to once again disagree. Once they are on the open market and sold legally, fair game.
We can put blame on the person who bought them, sure. But where is the blame for the cashier who rung them up? CLEARLY it's a different set, right?
Or the store employees and manager who stocked and barcoded them. It's CLEARLY different, right?
Or the people packaging them to ship?
How far up this ladder would you like to go before someone CLEARLY isn't an absolute idiot?
Name calling is a disservice here. A mistake was made and an item was released early. Through a frankly absurd amount of carelessness, they got sold.
But, sold LEGALLY. Once it's his, he's free to do as he pleases.
Reminds me of this one situation where there was a web developer (He's a YouTuber) who was contacted asking if he would like to participate in the development and promotion of some new online service. He replied to the email with a simple no thank you, because he doesn't like being tied into contracts in perpetuity. The contract basically stipulated that he would have to make content over an extended period of time and he said no, you can't tell me what I can and can't do.
He denied their request.
They replied back with "GREAT! So glad you're on board! Here's all the information!"
Someone didn't read his email. They lumped it all together and sent out a mass reply CC'ing everyone.
Well, he never agreed. He never signed a non-disclosure forum.
Yet they sent him everything, anyway.
So he posted about it. Showed the world what they were doing and wanting. The company tried to sue for a cease and desist, but it was too late.
The company sent it to him on their own accord, and he never agreed to their terms and conditions. Once it was his, it was his. And he won, and was able to post all about it online.
Moral of the story: If a company fucks up, that's on them. If you obtain your content legally, it's yours to do with as you please.
So don't attack the man who legally bought the products; Instead ask why it was even available in the first place.
June 1, 2023 12:51 p.m.
golgarigirl says... #15
There's no one person to blame here.
The Youtuber seemed knowledgeable enough to know he had something strange, and if he knew Magic at all, could muster the wherewithal to check it out. Maybe don't post the content until you verify what you have. Much less multiple videos of the content...and then not expect repercussions?
I think WOTC handled it poorly, but we don't know the full story as well. They have to have known the connotation of the Pinkertons and that their PR team has been getting a workout as of late. I would at least expect the agency to act like professionals and if that didn't happen, that's on them.
TLDR: Both parties acted within their legal rights. And both parties could have acted better.
June 27, 2023 10:35 p.m.
It's been almost a year, and this came up in a discussion I was having. I just spent some time looking around online and I can only find one article dated more than a week after this incident (but I'm not quite sure how to besqqt finesse the search). The entire situation seems to be a massive he-said-she-said, and while most articles and videos appear to be on the reviewer's side, they also seem to be opinion pieces looking for outraged reactions rather than actually summarizing what happened (lots of exclamation points, capital letters, "shocked" rhetorical questions, predictions of impending collapse, and screaming emojis).
The reviewer's story apparently changed several times after the fact, and he claimed that no information should be trusted unless it came from him. A charitable interpretation would say that he felt more able, free, and obligated to explain what actually happened, while trying to stop the spread of unnecessary and harmful rumors. A less charitable interpretation is that he started to exaggerate for sympathy and more outrage (and greater interaction) while trying to be the sole arbiter of information.
Ultimately, we have
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one guy, probably scared and not sensitive to the fine details of the situation, being showered with attention
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some number of Pinkerton agents, who either a. strong-armed a private citizen into giving up legally obtained property or b. recovered improperly released material while complying with all requests for identification and respect
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a corporation who either a. aggressively sent thugs after people for a minor infraction or b. wanted to protect and recover confidential property and hired a prominent detective and loss recovery agency, promising full compensation
So, what actually happened? Whatever happened, was it reasonable and responsible on the part of the reviewer, WotC, the Pinkerton Agency, and the individual agents? Why isn't there any followup from the popular media? Is there any more official, publicly available reporting or documentation that could shed some light on this?
https://www.hipstersofthecoast.com/2023/05/post-crisis-private-industry-product-protection-pinkerton-and-wizards-of-the-coast/
shadow63 says... #2
It's controversial because.
The Pinkertons are known for their strong arm tactics.
From what I understand wotc made no effort to contact the guy before sending thugs to his house.
And this is a minor issue. But wotc only needed the empty the box to track what distributor shipped the product early and did not need to take the cards from the guy.
May 1, 2023 8:02 p.m.