The Precipise of Quitting
General forum
Posted on July 19, 2016, 5:41 p.m. by strictlyWorse
DISCLAIMER-This is an "i suck at life" vent/rant, so "sorry" ahead of time.- ed.
i will be honest and say that i rarely win a game, unless there is some grave misplay/rule-judgement error made by the other person. 1v1 standard or multiplayer EDH, i usually encounter the problem of not having enough mana, even though the deck is stuffed full of rocks and appropriate land, or, i just have suck-shit cards that don't help me in play.
i look at other's decks. I look online at decklists. I do my f**king homework, but i still wipe. my level of frustration is very, very high.
the decks i build are usually for casual EDH, not competitive, so a competitive player obliterating me on turn one isn't the issue. The people i play with build "jank" decks for EDH, and i still lose to them.
I don't expect to be the best. i don't even want to go to tournaments. i just want to win one game.
this game comes with a high price tag, and i understand this... but i have paid lots of money to lose consistently, and it isn't fun anymore. it seems that i am terrible with everything in the game: Drafts, Casual, Sealed... even random chance seems to be something i am bad at, even though that isn't possible. I don't know if i want to be wasting my time and money on this any longer.
in the past 2 years i have been doing this, i have seen people around me improve, but i make no improvement. it's even an in-joke with my playgroup that i am terrible at this game. i don't get it.
i don't have any sort of major cognitive impairments, save for severe ADHD, which i am medicated for, and i register with others as a pretty intelligent person, for the most part. i know this is a game that makes you think, and thinking people tend to like this game. so why is it that i just don't "get it"?
i love games... played them all my life... but grinding an RPG alone is different from playing Chess... which is another game i never perform well at. so i am considering just hanging my hat and saying goodbye.
does this make sense? i hope so.
grumbledore says... #3
I have adhd as well. Playing magic has honestly helped me find ways to work with it, as I too wish to win. The only way I can do that is to make myself slow down and consider my choices carefully.
My advice: try another format. In general though I don't have a lot of patience for people who just give up when things are hard. If you want something, do what you need to do to get it.
July 19, 2016 6 p.m.
I can tell you NoTrueGamer that I have been playing, off and on, for about 20 or so years. I also have severe ADHD, and when I played during my first go-round, there was no such thing as "net decking". If you wanted to play a Pro's deck, you had to wait for the latest Wizard or something of the like. There was no next day or next week playing against the "pros" deck. The game had more innovation, more style. Now-a-days, you run into the same decks, time and time again. I get your frustration, your anger, and your desire to quit. What I can say is this: Coming from an old-timer, what I think is if you are no longer having fun, or enjoying the game, you should get out. This should be a hobby, unless you are trying to make a living at it, which it seems you are not. If the game is no fun, if it is no longer a hobby you enjoy, you should stop and find another one. There is no sense in doing something you don't like for enjoyment anymore. That would be like doing someone's taxes for fun.
You see my point?
July 19, 2016 6:05 p.m.
Grierworld says... #5
Fyi, don't quit magic. I quit before and sold all of my cards. Then I had to re-buy them all again! The times I'm frustrated with Magic, I play VS System 2PCG. It's a super hero game that's cheap. http://www.topdeckplayer.com/reviews/vs-a-magic-players-conversion-guide/
It's great to play a game like this during times like Eldrazi winter! Take your break, don't sell your cards and go back to magic when you're ready!
July 19, 2016 6:23 p.m.
I hope this sounds like an honest piece of advice, because it is...
Change your deck sleeves, maybe? It took me quite a while to realize that deck sleeves get grimy after a few months of use, especially with decks you use a lot, which makes sleeves "wear out" even faster. ADHD and/or familiarity with the game may not be the whole issue here.
With crappy sleeves, your shuffling is affected because cards clump together and don't mash together randomly enough to truly reorder the cards in your deck. That means whatever clump of cards that did not work well together last game, are probably all still "near" each other in the deck. I used to end up with huge pockets of land in my deck, or huge patches without, despite having good/useful cards in my deck.
I'm not trying to treat you like a noob or anything, I'm just saying... It personally took ME a couple years to figure that out, so perhaps that is an issue you could address.
Otherwise, I have found that discussing your decks, plays and choices with your opponents after games is also extraordinarily helpful. You gotta honestly open yourself up to advice, and not stubbornly insist on playing cards just because you "like them" (like I still do quite often), but another person's opinion can be invaluable, especially if they're an opponent who sees the holes in your gameplan... and is kind enough to point them out to you (which does mean your friends need to be actually nice enough to be honest and helpful).
It also is very eye-opening to swap decks with a friend, and you play their deck, while they play yours. It helps you view things from outside your own box, if you get what I mean.
It sounds like you like the game, so if you don't want to quit altogether, perhaps take a break. Stop playing for a month or so (or more, if need be) then return to the game refreshed and from a new perspective.
Hope everything works out for you in the end, good luck. =)
July 19, 2016 6:35 p.m.
You will get clumps or not clumps. It is variance. Please people, learn probability and randomness!
I can understand the frustration though. I went from, when I started, playing for fun then net decking something good and doing well and feeling on top of the world, to playing for competition and not doing well and not feeling great.
I've had to step back, look at what I want from magic and what I enjoy. I enjoy trading. I enjoy collecting. I enjoy the competation. But I am learning to save that for monthlys etc. Next week I'm rocking up at FNM with GB Eldrazi for shiggles.
July 19, 2016 6:56 p.m.
I found a new way to shuffle and since using this method, I almost never get clumps. I used to have clumping, especially with certain sleeves.
This is what I do now to shuffle:
Cut the deck roughly in half (actually I alternate between the upper or lower half being slightly bigger).
Cut the two halves in half, remembering all top and bottom orders.
Take the two tops. Shuffle. These are the new bottom.
Take the two bottoms. Shuffle. These are the new top.
July 19, 2016 7:18 p.m.
Servo_Token says... #9
Ok, so let's look at the way your average tournament pans out.
There's 10 players, which means 4 rounds are played, and we will assume no ties are declared.
1 person (10%) gets to finish first place at 4-0.
2 people (20%) get to finish "Well" with a 3-1 rating.
7 people (70%) finish with mediocre results at best, from 2-2 onward.
While everyone here wants to get in that top 3 placement, only 3 people get to be there. That means the overwhelming majority would be considered "Losers" this time. Whether it's because they lost to misplays, they lost to variance, or are just all in all bad at the game, they don't get to be called the winner, and everyone fits into this category most of the time. There's so many people that play and so few get to be called winners at the end of the day. That's just part of Magic, You're going to lose, and lose a lot.
Even the top tier pros like LSV and John Finkel (Well, maybe not finkel, so let's say Owen Turtenwald) only win on average 70% of their games. These are people that don't make mistakes in play. Variance is such a huge part of this game, and it's astounding how many people just can't seem to accept that. It's just something that you have to learn to live with, and if you don't put in the effort to get better and always let variance beat you down, then you'll never get anywhere playing this game.
So basically what i'm saying here is that you need to put the time in if you want to get better, but even if you do you can't rely on winning every game you play. You will get mana screwed. Your opponents will top deck you. It happens and there's nothing you can do to change it. If you don't like the idea of variance, play chess. Play poker. Play... I don't know... Video Games. But if you want to keep playing the best game in the world, then you need to accept losses to variance.
July 19, 2016 7:21 p.m.
MindAblaze says... #10
So you've been playing for the past two years at a "casual competitive" level, in all kinds of formats and find you lose consistently no matter what format or archetype you're piloting? You spend the money, do the research, net deck and still find you're outplayed on a regular basis...
I wonder what you feel it would take for you to begin winning games. You feel like it takes some huge misplay to win a game, but at the same time you describe having irrelevant permanents in play. I guess I just wonder; when each game has so many factors involved, what is the constant in each of the losses? For example, a player has to judge in each game "who is the aggro?" and adapt accordingly. Are you trying to force the game to go how you want?
When it comes to magic, there are lots of factors that determine whether you win or lose. In my meta, I lose 75% of my multiplayer games because I make myself a threat and don't back down. But I observe myself and am aware of this, what patterns are you aware of other than dumb luck make a difference when you win or lose?
July 19, 2016 7:30 p.m.
DERPLINGSUPREME says... #11
this is going to sound really stupid but I wanna make sure
are you running enough land?
July 19, 2016 8:12 p.m.
I'll share an experience I had at my first pre release and you can probably relate to it. Opened all of the packs, saw 2 Campaign of Vengeance one Prized Amalgam and one Call the Bloodline. Tunnel visioned building a black deck that splashed Esper. Actually didn't even have the split lands for it, and still only got mana screwed on one game out of all four rounds. SacrificingTerrarion to get my Spell Queller off helped a lot; but all the same, I lost every single round! Simply because of this: I had a deck that was full of good stuff, and even though it had some synergies between one creature that I could cast from the graveyard and Prized Amalgam, it couldn't go wide, and it wasn't low enough to the ground to get enough creatures out quick enough to do much but block. This meant that by the time I had the mana to play Campaign of Vengeance I was in no position to attack and trigger it!
So what? Basically, like in most drafts I've done, I realized after looking through my cards for the umpteenth time after round 3 I saw it: I had a bunch of really good red cards. None of them were bombs except maybe one, which did 6 damage to a player for 6 mana, but what I had also failed to notice, in my excitement over campaign of vengance, is that I had two blue creatures with prowess! And one of them had flying! Plus two counterspells! I could have built a SOLID blue/red deck with mostly 1-3 drops, that would have been much faster and more focused than the deck I chose, but I would have been a deck that ignored all of the obvious bombs in my packs!
The point is, you can't be tunnel visioned. You have to strive to remain aware of as many possible directions as you can at all times. That I think is how to grow as a player.
July 19, 2016 8:16 p.m.
RoarMaster says... #14
After glancing at your EDH decks on your profile, I think you could streamline your lists a little bit, although they dont look overly bad or anything. Chess and magic require planning ahead and thinking turns in advance, maybe this is a problem? I often times find myself forgetting what my plans were by the time my turn comes around, and then I mis-play due to it. ADHD probably doesnt help with this in your case I guess, but I have a few buds who are good players who also suffer from it, so I dunno if that is the cause though.
July 19, 2016 10:45 p.m.
IcyLightning says... #15
I'd say just try other formats. You mention EDH, drafts and sealed... maybe try just constructed standard or modern. EDH, drafts and sealed all have something in common, they lack the general consistency that a standard constructed deck provides. And due to the lack of consistency, there are many more options to plan ahead for and account for, so if that isn't your strong suit, I suggest trying something else. Make a deck that isn't based upon you making perfect plays every turn. Make a deck that fits your playstyle. Maybe its a red deck wins. Maybe its G/W tokens. I say try other things before you quit, and see if you can find something that you can play well that you enjoy.
July 20, 2016 3:41 a.m.
RussischerZar says... #16
Maybe you should try something like Magic Duels? :P They're even updating for Eldritch Moon today.
July 20, 2016 7:14 a.m.
sergiodelrio says... #17
I don't know what kind of decks you like, but what I have learned over the years is that, most of the times the correct way to approach your game decisions is to play your opponent - NOT to make the most obvious/linear move that might seem optimal in a vacuum. Don't give up. Talk to people, analyze the games you played, and think of lines of play you could have made but didn't, and what impact that would have had on the outcome of things.
July 20, 2016 8:33 a.m.
Draft. Draft a lot. As often as you can. Watch draft podcasts on YouTube, make sure you know every card in the set, know the draft archetypes so you're building a deck and not just throwing cards together. The thing with draft is that it teaches you how to build a deck. You will learn what cards serve a function and what don't. You'll learn to beware bad cards. You'll learn to beware deceptively bad cards (such as Lightning Greaves). These are skills that draft teaches that affect your performance regardless of format.
One of the great things about draft is that it is somewhat inconsistent. It's not constructed so you don't have perfect mana bases or playsets of your best card, etc etc. This teaches you to account for that. Which is a very important skill for EDH and combo decks (outside of draft, please don't build a combo deck in draft). Redundancy. Variety. Don't put all your eggs in one basket. You get the idea.
As a general rule for draft: 23 spells and 17 lands. Almost always 2 colors. Unless it's a format that supports 3 colors (like KTK), don't do three colors. Play bad cards in your colors rather than splash a third for good cards. Keep in mind you have a sideboard in draft, and that's where cards like Natural State go. Removal is good. Even removal as bad as Throttle is good in draft. Remember that hate drafting is a thing.
To reiterate:
Draft teaches deck construction skills
Draft teaches you to recognize good and bad cards
Remember that you have resources available to you to get you started. Two notable YouTube channels for this are TheManaSource and Limited Resources.
July 20, 2016 8:41 a.m.
strictlyWorse says... #19
interesting replies... i know it's been some weeks since this post originally happened. i had to take some time away from the webz. sorry.
anyway... i will try and address the replies in generalities.
- i try and run enough land... the average land ratios that are standbys in the game are what i use. though, i have done things like miscount or something similar, and i don't count the obvious deck-building mistakes that are made in my case.
also; asking the question "how many lands are you running," has become akin to asking someone with a computer problem "did you restart your computer?" lol ;)
i do draft, but probably not as much as i should. it's an issue of time... i'm an old man; i got old man's pain... lol
i don't play MO, so i am restricted to irl drafts, or using XMage, which i would rather stab myself in the face than deal with that UI.
August 25, 2016 8:55 p.m.
strictlyWorse says... #20
I appreciate the critique of my decklists. I know the posted lists on my profile were old when i originally posted on this thread... so i made them private, save for a few. i did this because they did not accurately list the current state of the deck.
i am sure you all know how rapidly decks can change, and i mess with mine far more IRL than i do online.
that said, when i do get force myself to get on here and change them, i still like eyes on them because criticism helps one grow.
i hope i didn't sound like i was averse to criticism in my OP.
August 25, 2016 9:20 p.m.
strictlyWorse says... #21
It isn't lost on me that EDH et al are less consistent types of formats. you work with what you have in draft, sealed, and limited... I have routinely done the above "play in-color bad cards," and only for something really cool would i splash.
August 25, 2016 9:36 p.m.
strictlyWorse says... #22
all of this feels equivalent to asking a 400 pound person who is on an unsuccessful diet why havent they lost weight, yet. -i give my "i take my vitamins and say prayers" speech, but the crowd fails to erupt in Hulkamaina. ...meaning i feel like i am bullshitting myself.
i have talked with some of the people i play with, and the best observation i have recieved this far was that i am what would be known as "too quick on the draw", and i seem to be brute-forcing my deck to work.
i am psychologically skittish during a match, and like the special snowflake that i am, i fall in with most people who are on edge to a degree during a competition... even a friendly competition. i know that i am in the average of people who allow themselves to be psyched out, and it is difficult to curtail this.
i see a creature: i kill it. opponent plays a spell: i counter it. etc, etc. my impulse takes control, and i become too reactionary. this increases as psychological warfare reaches a palpable level. this is my first major critique i feel needs to be addressed.
rationally, i know the odds of winning are pretty even, give or take... but as soon as i get into my seat, and look that person in the mouth (i hate eye-contact), i think: "welp. let's get this over with," and that person has already won, even before we roll to see who is on play.
i feel like this is a far deeper issue than "i suck at magic", so i will leave this to my therapist, just acknowledge this issue, and move on.
August 25, 2016 9:57 p.m.
MindAblaze says... #23
So, you know why you're having a hard time and continue to make the same decisions. This is obviously not working out for you, so what have you tried to secure a different outcome?
August 25, 2016 10:29 p.m.
strictlyWorse says... #24
well, typing out a novel on my phone is not a solution, obviously. ;)
in response to the above:
it isn't a cut and dry situation, really. like all things in life, this is a complex issue that isn't as simple as "just play better."
I don't think i can quit, realistically. not in an "it's addictive" way... more like a feeling that i enjoy the game, at the very heart of it, for many reasons. my outlook on this just needs to be adjusted.
since written, i have been in a draft (wipe), two sessions of EDH (won), and a standard tournament (wipe) that ended with us all getting bored with STD, and playing EDH (another win). lol
so looking at it, realistically... that isn't that bad. as a commenter wrote about how even LSV loses matches. i believe that much of the issue is that negatives stick out more than positives, and i have to stop looking at it and only seeing the negatives.
even negatives can be positive; There is a great book called "Failure: Why Science is so Successful", and the book does a great job deconstructing the concept of failure and why the negative connotation it has in the sciences needs to be considered with more nuance than it currently is. the book is very-self aware, and shows how this applies to life in general. not in a hippy-dippy, self-helpy way... but honestly taking a look at why failure is an essential component of just about everything, and it shouldn't be so loathed. i am taking a bit of what that book says and applying it to my games.
strictlyWorse says... #2
Fun Facti posted this while buying MTG cards on TCGplayer. WTF. 9_9
July 19, 2016 5:46 p.m.