What is cruel control?
General forum
Posted on Oct. 23, 2012, 1:29 p.m. by UmbrotheUmbreon
It's when you control the board in a cruel fashion right?
UmbrotheUmbreon says... #4
Ah, would my This is the Countdown to Extinction deck be considered Cruel Control?
October 23, 2012 2:38 p.m.
If it doesn't have Cruel Ultimatum , it's not cruel control.
October 23, 2012 2:41 p.m.
UmbrotheUmbreon says... #6
That's like saying if a burn deck doesn't have Lightning Bolt it's not a burn deck =/
October 23, 2012 2:47 p.m.
If you're asking what "cruel control" is, it's a control deck with Cruel Ultimatum . That's the answer to your question. I'm not saying the name is good or bad, but if a deck doesn't have Cruel Ultimatum , it isn't "cruel control".
October 23, 2012 3:04 p.m.
That's like saying that it's not caw-blade without Squadron Hawk
It's not rock without Phyrexian Plaguelord
it's not Tempered Steel without Tempered Steel
October 23, 2012 4:25 p.m.
Sam_I_am beat me to the punch, but I'll still play Devil's advocate. I agree that Cruel Control is based on Cruel Ultimatum , but I think you could take that deck's design philosophies and apply them to a deck that doesn't run Cruel Ultimatum and you would still have Cruel Control. For example, I think that card:Rakdos's Return makes an acceptable substitute for Cruel Ultimatum. I think the deck would probably be Grixis-aligned and have lots of removal/discard/counters and very few threats.
Though at the end of the day Cruel Control is an outdated deck name and probably should not be used to define decks any more.
October 23, 2012 4:40 p.m.
UmbrotheUmbreon says... #10
Well my Golgari deck uses lots of ways to kill my opponent's creatures (Tribute to Hunger , card:Geth's Verdict, Slum Reaper ) and then I have Augur of Skulls for discard. I think it is very cruel control, as not a lot of things live when playing this deck.
October 23, 2012 4:56 p.m.
No.. Cruel Ultimatum has so much card advantage by itself.. card:Rakdos's Return is nowhere near the pain of an ultimatum. Not to mention that usually after the ultimatum a Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker would show up.
If your opponent could cast succesfully an ultimatum it was probably game.
October 23, 2012 5:06 p.m.
@UmbrotheUmbreon: The name "Cruel Control" has nothing to do with actually being cruel to your opponents. In my personal opinion, your deck is definitively NOT "Cruel Control". Your deck is solidly a "midrange" deck, definitely not a control deck. If you need to shoehorn it into some existing archetype it is passable as "rock", though I think you saw my argument in a previous thread that "Rock" doesn't truly exist in an unstable meta.
October 23, 2012 5:11 p.m.
UmbrotheUmbreon says... #13
Haha, yeah I remember that thread about Rock. Well, with a name "Cruel Control" and then the "Control" you think "What's the difference?" and come to the conclusion that cruel control is simply controlling the board to a point of infuriation.
October 23, 2012 5:13 p.m.
@omgroflme: pretty sure you card:Rakdos's Return someone for X=4 to empty their hand, and that's just scoopsies.
@UmbrotheUmbreon: agreed, "cruel control" is just plain outdated as an archetype
October 23, 2012 5:16 p.m.
UmbrotheUmbreon says... #15
Well, I removed it from my hub on the deck =/
October 23, 2012 5:18 p.m.
Depends the matchup.. It has potential.. but its so much mana dependant. And with such an aggro environment..
October 23, 2012 5:28 p.m.
UmbrotheUmbreon says... #17
I have aggro deck :) It destroyed a TurboFog deck :D
October 23, 2012 5:39 p.m.
@ omgroflme: I was skeptical too, but if you have time check this out: http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/article.asp?ID=10784
Frank makes several misplays just by trying to avoid card:Rakdos's Return and ends up getting blown out by a midrange jund player just because of the possibility that they're running Rakdos's Return. I'm not going to build a deck around it, but if I'm in B/R I'll probably run 1-2 copies somewhere in the 75. If I run it main, I'd swap it out after the opponent sees it or if I'm on the draw. Otherwise it's solid sideboard tech against control.
I'm actually more concerned about control than aggro right now. I feel like Bant Control is going to be the deck to beat in the coming months since it has consistent mana, bombs, sweepers, draw, and Thragtusk /Centaur Healer .
October 23, 2012 5:49 p.m.
I' ve seen it.
So far my current meta is full of W/R/U tempo decks. Snapcaster Mage s, Geist of Saint Traft and Izzet Charm s are all over the place. Dunno about bant.. i play a selesnya gain life/flicker midrange deck and only the aggro decks were annoying (espesially zombies) so far. Maybe in the months to come (as you said) that the format will be much more stable bant control could be a thing, who knows /shrug :)
October 23, 2012 6:06 p.m.
I realize that this is a very old thread, but I wanna talk about this since people STILL perpetuate this mistake.
Kabrazell is right, it is a control deck that wins with Cruel Ultimatum. Umbro's analogy with lightning bolt and burn is not accurate. A more accurate analogy is like labeling U/R delver as a Twin deck. If the deck doesn't play Splinter Twin, then it's not twin, and is therefore a misnomer. It's the exact same case with Cruel Control. If you just wanna use the term "cruel control" for describing a form of lockdown, you could call it "mean control" or something, but Cruel Control is something else entirely.
Sorry for reviving this ancient thread, I just can't believe that this is still such a common gaffe.
Azure124 says... #2
its when you control the board through killing everything the opponent plays and slowly beating them to death.
October 23, 2012 1:44 p.m.