What's the point of off-base fetch lands?
General forum
Posted on Feb. 17, 2016, 6:34 p.m. by xander8162
I'm still new to this and, like every other newbie, I've been looking at decks online and trying to understand what people are doing. A lot of things puzzle me, but this should (hopefully) be an easy answer.
If a deck is primarily R/G, Wooded Foothills make sense, because you can sac it to bring a mountain or forest into play. However, in the same decks, I also see Bloodstained Mire and Windswept Heath, which doesn't make a lot of sense.
If you aren't playing Black, why put in a dual land that supports it over a regular mountain? Same deal with Green and Windswept Heath. Is it just to get a deck shuffle or is there some subtle point I'm missing?
TheNinjaJesus says... #3
Delve fuel, shuffling your deck, thinning the lands out. Pick your favorite answer and that's why.
February 17, 2016 6:36 p.m.
DERPLINGSUPREME says... #4
they are meant not only to search out the duals as pointed out above, but also to thin the deck so you have a higher chance of getting what you really need.
February 17, 2016 6:37 p.m.
Player3.14 says... #5
Just to reiterate what has already been said, they're great for fetching duals with multiple basic land types, of which there are three cycles. The tango lands or "battle lands," like Cinder Glade are primarily used in Standard, while the Shocklands like Stomping Ground are key in modern mana. Legacy has access to the AUBR duals, like Taiga.
Delve, a mechanic originally printed in the future sight block but expanded upon in Khans of Tarkir and Fate Reforged, also makes use of fetch lands. The key here is that fetches help fill up the graveyard, allowing for the casting of Delve cards like Become Immense easy and consistant.
The last reason to run them is deck thinning. This is the most controversial of the reasons; some swear by it, while others would rather save the 1 life. The idea behind deck thinning is that each fetch takes a land out of your deck, statistically decreasing you chances of drawing another extra land slightly. I've personally never found thinning to help; I'd rather just save money and not buy extra fetches!
February 17, 2016 6:46 p.m.
xander8162,
They're also a source of extra Landfall triggers, for decks that care.
February 17, 2016 7:26 p.m.
Off color fetches only make sense to me in a three color deck. As the fixing is a bigger factor, and you have more targets...a lot of competitive 3 color edh decks run 3-3-9 which is 3 ABUR duals, 3 shocks, 9 fetches. This makes it more likely to hit your colors when you need them.
February 17, 2016 8:15 p.m.
Player3.14 says... #8
That too. They can also help pump your Knight of the Reliquary, and make sure you have a land in the graveyard for Tarmogoyf. Fetches have all sorts of deck specific uses as well.
February 17, 2016 8:35 p.m.
vampirelazarus says... #9
The math for deck thinning suggests that the effect of it is largely negligible. However, the other points are all valid, and some may run the off base fetches for the reason to deck thin, and aren't aware that the effects really don't impact the game that much.
Also, shuffling.
February 18, 2016 12:40 a.m.
Metroid_Hybrid says... #10
Another reason could be budget restrictions too.. Say I I want to build a U/R deck, but Scalding Tarn is way out of my price range. For the time being I can substitute Bloodstained Mire/Wooded Foothills/etc. in place of Tarns..
February 18, 2016 5:38 a.m.
xander8162 says... #11
Thank you all for the responses (and for not flaming me). I was thinking about this while I was walking my dog this morning and it occurred to me that they could also be considered 0 mana cost ramp spells.
February 18, 2016 7:22 a.m.
vampirelazarus says... #12
Ramp nets you mana, and they don't really net you any mana. They count for your land drop, and get you a land that produces mana. You don't gain any mana, because you're using your land drop to get a land.
Think of it like this: You play a Mountain on turn one. You now have one mana.You play a Bloodstained Mire on turn one, crack it, grab a Sacred Foundry. You now have one mana.
Where's the ramp?
A ramp spell would net you mana, i.e. Summer Bloom
February 18, 2016 12:26 p.m.
xander8162 says... #13
I can see your point, but I'm looking at it differently. I look at cards like Bloodstained Mire as an improved zero cost Natural Connection. So in the situation you described, dropping Bloodstained Mire is (in my mind) the same as not dropping a land at all. If I drop it on turn one, then what I'm saying is "I don't have any real mana source to play so I'm gonna go get one". In that instance, by dropping Bloodstained Mire and using it to fetch Sacred Foundry, I've increased my usable mana from zero to one.
If I look at the fetch lands not as lands but as no cost spells, then their value becomes even greater, because they're effectively zero casting cost spells that can't be countered, which is incredibly powerful.
Perhaps I'm overthinking this, but at least I have it fixed in my head why these cards are important now.
February 18, 2016 5:12 p.m.
vampirelazarus says... #14
Except that by playing a fetch you have access to mana, due to it being able to get you mana. Therefore, by playing a fetch you have one mana. It may not say it on the card, but it let's you get a mana for free (basically free).
It takes a land drop, and then destroys itself getting a land, netting you nothing.
February 18, 2016 5:32 p.m.
xander8162 says... #15
But the fetches still cost mana to use, so during the turn you use the fetch, you're at a disadvantage unless the fetch brings in more mana than it cost. It's an advantage the next turn, when everything untaps, but at the moment it's cast, there is still the opportunity cost to consider.
If you already have your mana pool in play, then you're absolutely correct that fetch lands are a net zero if you play one, but if you don't have any land or are missing a color, then it becomes a +1 because you've gained something you can use in exchange for something you can't.
February 18, 2016 6:12 p.m.
vampirelazarus says... #16
With fetches, more often than not, the land enters untapped. You gain nothing, and only lose life and a land drop.
Think of it like a variable. Your fetch is 1x. We don't know what that X is until you crack it. When you crack it, it can become 1 red, or 1 black or 1 blue.
Your comment about untapping the next turn makes no sense. Most lands you grab off the fetch will enter untapped, unless they have a niche condition that prevents them from entering untapped.
KillDatBUG says... #2
They find duals. Taiga, Stomping Ground, and Cinder Glade are the R/G duals that can be found with Wooded Foothills, Bloodstained Mire, Scalding Tarn, Arid Mesa, Windswept Heath, Verdant Catacombs, Misty Rainforest... Point is, they fix your mana. The deck thinning aspect doesn't really matter as much.
February 17, 2016 6:36 p.m. Edited.