Why Does High Fae Trickster Have Such a Lenient Mana Cost?
General forum
Posted on Feb. 4, 2025, 5:07 p.m. by DemonDragonJ
I believe that High Fae Trickster's mana cost is too lenient, especially when one considers that she completely outclasses Yeva, Nature's Herald, other than having a lower toughness. I believe that the trickster should have a mana cost of cost , rather than , given how heavily blue her abilities are, especially considering that Yeva costs to cast.
What does everyone else say, about this? Why do you believe that High Fae Trickster has such a lenient mana cost, and, as an additional question, considering that Vivien, Champion of the Wilds exists, will WotC ever print a creature card who is identical to Yeva, except that it shall grant flash to all creature spells, rather than merely green creature spells? I certainly am interested to hear everyone's thoughts, on this matter.
DemonDragonJ says... #3
wallisface, may I please ask how you formed your conclusion about those cards being playable only in casual games?
February 4, 2025 6:25 p.m.
I think that a potential answer to your question regarding comparative mana costs is that better abilities on a creature are only relevant if that creature stays on the board. High Fae Tricker's 2 toughness is a pretty serious detriment on a four mana creature. It means that the Trickster dies to something as simple and cheap as a Shock and an opponent can trade a much cheaper creature in combat for it. In a lot of situations you won't be playing the Trickster on curve on turn four because you will want to cast it when you also have protection available. The one pip of blue mana in its cost at least makes it easier to also have blue mana available for some sort of counterspell.
In comparison, Yeva is able to take a Lightning Bolt and survive, which is a pretty important baseline. You can also cast her during combat as a surprise blocker that can kill a 3/3 or 3/4 and still stick around. That means that she can effectively put you up one card on your opponent on curve just on her own while at best the Trickster can come down and only survive blocking against a 1 power creature.
The Trickster does have flying, which in some clogged board states could make it a more effective attacker than Yeva, but even a really mana-inefficient 2/1 flying creature for three mana can "trade up" mana-wise against it in combat.
As for both the Trickster and Yeva's abilities to give other cards flash, that's only relevant if you have cards that benefit from that in hand. At its worst, the ability does nothing for you that can change the game state. At its best it's a moderate advantage that offers some room to surprise and outplay your opponent. Even then though, it is an ability that is dependent on other cards in your hand to get you any value. The Trickster may have the better ability but Yeva can do more for you on its own. Two pips of green mana on a green creature that can function as a psuedo-kill spell is pretty reasonable to expect given that you would normally have to use at least one green mana while casting a creature and another green mana while casting a fight spell to get a similar effect.
February 4, 2025 6:31 p.m.
wallisface says... #5
DemonDragonJ because firstly and most obviously, none of them have been played in any competitive formats.
Going into further reasons why this is:
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most formats aim to win the game around turn 4-5. These cards come down too late for their effects to be remotely worth it. If your deck is relying on this effect, they come down too late to help. And if your deck isn’t relying on this effect, there’s no reason to have them in the deck.
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the effects of these cards are generally very weak. Casting creatures at instant speed is just not a relevant or sought-after effect. Even for those decks that might need such an effect, it’s not actually useful in a wide range of matchups. It’s just not a strong ability.
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there are just MUCH better ways to achieve this effect. Compare these cards to Aether Vial, which only costs 1 mana instead of a whopping 4, still allows you to get creatures onboard at instant-speed, but entirely bypasses the opponents ability to counter that creature, AND also does so without you having to pay mana.
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they’re super-easy to remove, and do nothing on the turn they enter. Wasting 4 mana on a creature that’s basically vanilla is a terrible plan.
February 4, 2025 6:38 p.m.
Crow_Umbra says... #6
I'm going to venture a guess that wallisface is mostly speaking from the perspective of Modern? I haven't kept up with Modern in ages, but the clock is much quicker in a 20 life format compared to something like a commander game.
For Commander, I think your mileage will vary depending on how optimized your playgroup is, and the deck housing these 2 creatures. Even in non-cEDH flavors of commander, usually by Turn 4, you'll want to start moving past the early ramp and set up, and pivoting into taking off for mid game. I think less optimized casual groups make sense for these cards, especially ones that play less instant speed interaction, so something like Yeva or Trickster would be more impactful in that context. In something like cEDH, decks are already threatening efficient combo wins by turn 4.
Edit: Lol so I was kinda right on (some of) wallisface's perspective. They replied before I finished mine.
February 4, 2025 6:41 p.m. Edited.
wallisface says... #7
I think even in casual commander these cards feel like a dubious choice. They’re still a lot of mana for a fairly weak effect that’s only sometimes situationally useful. They achieve nothing towards advancing any kind of gameplan and mostly just waste one of your turns.
February 4, 2025 7:32 p.m.
You see Vedalken Orrery promoted a fair bit on The Command Zone but I've yet to have it survive the first few rounds of cuts in a new commander deck. I think that if you build a deck with a solid game plan then you usually end up wanting a more synergistic card or a piece of interaction that is already instant speed. I do have Yeva in a lower power commander deck because of elf synergies and Vivien, Champion of the Wilds in a deck that also runs Captain Sisay and Seedborn Muse though.
I guess that if I was to make an argument for those sorts of cards in casual commander it would be that since it is a multiplayer format you have the added factor of having to manage aggro from other players. It's something that you don't have to worry about in 1v1 where you just try to make the most optimal plays. In casual commander you have to deal with people with varying levels of threat assessment who may be triggered by particular cards. That means sometimes intentionally holding back cards and letting potential mana usage go to waste if it helps keep multiple people from suddenly ganging up on you until an opportune moment pops up. So being able to cast all your spells at instant speed lets you manage aggro a little better while also giving you more options to efficiently use mana over several turns (assuming that a casual game averages around 8-10 turns).
February 4, 2025 8:44 p.m.
To continue with wallisfaces point, even weaker formats like standard or pioneer have no use for the card. Every time you draw it, instead wonder if you would rather of drawn a Sheoldred, the Apocalypse. 99% of the time you’d rather take the sheoldred.
wallisface says... #2
Considering that neither of these cards are remotely playable in anything except for super-casual kitchen-table play, I would say they’re all overcosted.
The blue card being easier to cast and being less-restrictive makes sense as this effect is more primarily in blue.
February 4, 2025 5:53 p.m.