Why is it banned
General forum
Posted on Jan. 6, 2021, 9:33 p.m. by TheGiftedBard
I'm looking on edhrec the card Stone-Throwing Devils from Arabian Night and I was wondering why it was banned.
I'ts a 1/1 for First strike, not sure what is so broken to get it banned or is there another reason ?
Gidgetimer says... #3
It is part of WotC's ban to remove racially/culturally insensitive cards from sanctioned formats. This particular card was banned because "stone throwing devils" is an old slur for muslims.
January 6, 2021 9:40 p.m.
VampDemigod says... #4
Gidgetimer explained this perfectly, please mark resolved or @ a staff member to mark resolved.
January 6, 2021 10:45 p.m.
VampDemigod: technically he can't i think, since this isn't in the rules Q&A forum.
January 6, 2021 11:34 p.m.
Mcat1999 your response isn't helpful in the slightest, the slightest bit of googling will show you Stone Throwing Devils can be seen as a slur against Muslim practices, please edcuate yourself instead of commenting this.
January 7, 2021 3:16 a.m.
sergiodelrio says... #7
Mcat1999 moral standards held up by a company should be somewhat tighter than the general public's. To be the least controversial possible (the gain of being more controversial, not necessarily 'too' controversial, is nonexistent in this case). It's a wise move. That's why you don't see erotic content either.
January 7, 2021 4:46 a.m.
Gidgetimer says... #8
While I am still a fan of Hanlon's Razor (try not to be offended, the "stupid" part still isn't aimed at you) in this case the name is an actual slur that has been used. The journey to the card doesn't matter. Nobody should lose a job over it unless it is part of a larger pattern of problematic behavior. The game as a whole is better off without the card though.
January 7, 2021 6:15 a.m.
Mcat1999 It is entirely possible you are missing the point on why this and the other cards were banned. It is also entirely possible you're doing so on purpose but I'd prefer to give you the benefit of the doubt.
This particular card, and the others along with it, did not take a ban because they were created with malicious intent. They were not wrongly banned because the original meaning behind their names or pictures may have been innocent. They were banned because as their phrases or images are interpreted today, they are derogatory or hurtful to another race, culture, or creed. In the future you may even see additional created cards end up on this list. It is possible to take something innocent or meaningless and pervert it to be meaningful and hurtful.
Consider for example your statement from above, "The name may be used out of context in terms of racial superiority and Islamophobic attacks, but the origin is not. The Stoning of the Devil is an important cultural aspect of their faith and practice." Now instead read it this way, "The swastika may be used out of context in terms of racial superiority and anti-semitic attacks, but the origin is not. The swastika is an important cultural aspect of the Hindu faith and practice." Would you argue that as it stands now the swastika is not more a symbol of hate and/or bigotry? Not how or why it was created but what it's become. This even happens with modern symbols such as Pepe the Frog. Definitely not designed to be a symbol of the alt-right but co opted by people to make something innocent into something now viewed as offensive and hurtful.
As things change we all need to be willing to adjust and change to. Just because something starts out one way, does not mean it will stay that way forever and if it becomes potentially problematic we need to be prepared to address it as such instead of arguing that it didn't used to be a problem so lets ignore that it is now. I hope you have a great day.
January 7, 2021 8:35 a.m.
channelfireball12345 says... #10
Either way, the name may very well be derived from an actual religious practice, but I think that its obvious that the phrase 'stone-throwing devils' is a pretty negative way to characterize anyone, let alone as a mockery/crude caricature of someone's religious beliefs and traditions.
January 7, 2021 9:20 a.m.
TheGiftedBard says... #11
So I guess we should stop using Cyclonic Rift because victims of tropical storm might find it offensive?
January 7, 2021 9:23 a.m.
VampDemigod says... #12
January 7, 2021 9:27 a.m.
sergiodelrio says... #13
TheGiftedBard if it were called 'Cyclonic Rift on Haiti', yes. But it's not. There's a difference in being specific and being unspecific. The line is blurry, yes, but I agree on leaning to the uncontroversial side.
January 7, 2021 9:27 a.m.
channelfireball12345 says... #14
TheGiftedBard this thread was created for the purpose of learning why a certain card is banned; truth be told, I didn't know the origin of the phrase myself until Gidgetimer shared it with us all. While I could absolutely take time out of my day to explain to you why your statement was misguided and illogical, I think its for the best if we leave this conversation at the answer to the question that you asked. In short, if you have nothing constructive to contribute, please don't say anything at all.
January 7, 2021 9:30 a.m.
channelfireball12345 says... #15
VampDemigod yes, I would very much appreciate if they were to do so.
January 7, 2021 9:31 a.m.
TheGiftedBard says... #16
channelfireball12345 if you don’t like what I’m writing no one is forcing you to stay subscribe to the discussion and keep posting mate.
January 7, 2021 9:35 a.m.
I agree with VampDemigod that locking this thread is in the best interest of everyone. I originally thought this question was asked in good faith but I can now see otherwise based upon additional responses from the OP.
January 7, 2021 9:40 a.m.
channelfireball12345 says... #18
Is that what I said? I was simply requesting, on behalf of the greater community and in the interest of preserving online etiquette and decorum, that you refrain from making dumb comments such as the above.
January 7, 2021 9:40 a.m.
channelfireball12345 says... #19
** Replying to TheGiftedBard of course; that was not directed at anyone else
January 7, 2021 9:40 a.m.
TheGiftedBard says... #21
Do what you wish with the post. It was originally for knowledge purposes but I ended up finding that the mtg community is easily offended for no reasons.
Finding political or racial offences in a card game is ridiculous to say the least.
I have no wish to stay affiliated with such player base. You can ban the account if you wish to. I’m not coming back anymore.
January 7, 2021 9:50 a.m.
Seems like you are the only one offended, my good bitch.
January 7, 2021 10:22 a.m.
channelfireball12345 says... #23
TheGiftedBard so you're comfortable being callously racist yet are thin-skinned enough to storm off saltily when decent human beings call you our for it? Hmmm doesn't make much sense but ok.
January 7, 2021 10:40 a.m.
I am going to go ahead and lock this thread. I would have hoped that the community could have moved past the--frankly inexplicable--vitriol when discussing these cards, but it seem time has not yet softened reactions.
Let us all remember that words have meaning. I see far too many people trying to justify an honest-to-goodness ethnic slur. It does not necessarily matter what the history of a word, phrase, or symbol might be--words can become symbols of hate and vitriol, even if they were innocent.
The simple fact is this phrase looks at the Muslim practice of stone-throwing, which, while also done for religion, in the context of the word as an ethnic slur, also invokes images of the punishment of stoning, which is still done in some Muslim countries. Though government policies are a reflection on the governments that implement them, stoning is often cited by racists and bigots--completely unfairly--to show all Muslims are barbaric.
The Devil is also a figure in Islam, just as it is in its slightly older Abrahamic brother Christianity. But that is not the image invoked by the phrase "devils" with that all-important plural. Again, racists and bigots often call those with different religious practices "devils" since it invokes images that their religion is wrong.
Taken together, the phrase clearly identifies a specific group of people, stereotyping the entire group based on the actions of some of their governments, and then calls them "devils". It's an targeted double-insult, and one that has no place in this game.
That is the reality; Wizards knew that and though it took them a bit too long to take action and purge the slur from the game, they finally did the right thing and did so. So let's not decry them for their action, and not try to ignore reality to justify the existence of bigotry in the game we all love.
One day, I hope someone can ask a question of this nature--which is not an entirely unfair question if one was not following the game closely when Wizards made the ban announcement--without it devolving into fighting and misdirection so as to justify hate. That day has not yet come, and I will not hold my breath, but I hope for it nonetheless.
TheGiftedBard says... #2
Ok now that I looked on the ''image link'' it says it's racist ? What is supposed to be racist about devils throwing rocks ? I don't get it.
January 6, 2021 9:34 p.m.