Wizards has made a shirt to support LGBTQ people
General forum
Posted on April 24, 2018, 10:11 a.m. by Argy
LGBTQ youth in particular.
Click the link below for more information.
flluid you mean as in had Orange and Purple colours in Magic?
White can sort of stand for Yellow.
Some people would argue that is Purple.
Guess that just leaves Orange.
April 24, 2018 11:24 a.m.
I think it's an overrated thing. This is America, you do whatever the hell you want. Doesn't mean the rest of us are wrong for not supporting you. Annoys me to be called mysogenistic just because I believe all that crap is wrong. But is meh, yknow. All is chill in the land of Nill.
April 24, 2018 5:19 p.m.
Homura_Akemi says... #7
Ooh, it looks cool!
I second one with the trans flag colors, and I appreciate that this one includes the entire LGBTQ community!
+1 Wizards!
April 24, 2018 6:04 p.m.
buckeyetron says... #8
Nillstan: "misogynistic". also, thats not even the right word. the word you are looking for is "homophobic". doesn't matter if it annoys you, its still correct to call you homophobic, and you're still wrong to not support them. you have no right to tell people they shouldn't be allowed to be with who they want to be with.
April 24, 2018 8:19 p.m.
Ah there's the word I'm looking for. I'm homophobic for not supporting what I believe is wrong?
I didnt say anything about who is and is not allowed to be with who. As a matter of fact, i said it's a free country and you can do whatever.
Your argument is invalid as it pertains to me. However, i would say that you're the one who fits your statements.
You say that I'm wrong wholly, but you also tell me my beliefs are wrong. Suddenly it reeks of hypocrisy in here
April 24, 2018 9:04 p.m.
buckeyetron says... #10
Nillstan: technically yes, you are homophobic for not supporting what you believe is wrong. thats literally what homophobia means. my argument is not invalid, it does pertain to you, and you're a fool to think that i fit my statement of homophobia. nothing i have said is homophobic. for you to say that you do not support homosexuality, literally IS saying that they cannot be with who they want to be with. if you TRULY believed people can "do whatever", then you would not think it was wrong. there is nothing hypocritical about what i said. when you say "you say that im wrong wholly, but you also tell me my beliefs are wrong", you're just repeating yourself. you literally are saying the same thing twice. "you're wrong" and "your beliefs are wrong" is literally the exact same thing.
April 24, 2018 9:13 p.m.
So it goes like this. I dont have a problem with gay people. I dont. I dont care either way. Why? Because the God I serve teaches tolerance, despite all. He also teaches that being gay is a sin against him, and that they'll be sent straight to hell for it. I do not support gay people. It's wrong, but there's nothing I can say that will change anything. I will not support what is a sin. Call me what you want, and do whatever the hell you want too. That's your right. So by all means.
I wasnt calling you homophobic. I was calling you wrong for telling me what I believe is wrong
April 24, 2018 9:38 p.m.
buckeyetron says... #12
Nillstan you really don't see how you contradicted yourself? typical of a christian. you can't say you dont have a problem with it, but then also say that homosexuality is a sin. you just can't. if you think its a sin, you have a problem with it. a big problem. im not wrong for telling you you're wrong. isn't your sky wizard supposed to be all about love? if your sky wizard was really so against homosexuality, why isn't it one of the 10 commandments? why is it a sin? who does it hurt? how does it negatively affect anyone? your bible is a poor place to look for morals. it literally gives instructions on how to beat slaves and says a rapist can buy his victim from her father and then marry her.
April 24, 2018 9:50 p.m.
Typical of an asshole to insult a whole religion. God loves everyone. The common misconception is that he sends you to hell. He doesn't. You send yourself. God gave the gift of woman to man so that he would have someone. To spit in his face and be with someone of the same gender, therein lies the sin. To forsake gods most precious gift. I dont have a problem with gay people, you do what you want, I dont care. I have a problem with the sun itself. And about the slave thing, that's you not understanding. That's a change in the times, which he states is acceptable. Slavery isn't a thing anymore. That doesn't invalidate the bible. Besides, Just because something isn't a commandment doesnt mean it isn't a sin. You are insulting what you dont understanf
Anyways, I'm done with this arguement. It's a site about a fucking card game. This shit's gone too deep already
April 24, 2018 10:09 p.m.
Suns_Champion says... #14
Yeah, let's end the debate there :)
It's a nice shirt. Simple, nothing too flashy.
Supports a great cause and program!
+1
April 24, 2018 10:16 p.m.
SeekerofSecrets says... #15
Quoting passages from Hebrew law that are not applicable to our current society is not an accurate way to access the morality of our religion. Those passeges where writen by men and only aply to that culture at that time. They in no way reflect the common ideas about morality found throughout the bible.
Christians believe that homosexuality is a sin yes. But we also belive that lying, cheating, being selfish, murder and pretty much every thing that falls out side of our moral compass is a sin. We also believe that the punishment for any sin is death(or an eternity im hell if you like) and that the only way to escape this fate is through the grace of god.
I say all that to try and establish that we don't believe that we are any different than anyone else which is why Christianity should be a religion of tolerance (this of course is a complicated subject that i can expand further on (i also admit that many "Christians" do not practice this tolerance and i am very sorry if you've experienced any hate in the past))
On top of all of that we live in a multicultural society, not agreeing with your world view doesn't make us "homophobic". You have to accept different opinions as long as those opinions do not infringe on your own rites (i was in full support of the supreme court's decision, this does not mean that i support the action but rather i support your free will to do so. Kind of like gambling). Otherwise by that logic you would then have to fully belive in my beliefs as well as your own and we would end up with this watered down version of our culture.
April 24, 2018 10:29 p.m.
Spoken a hell of a lot better than I could. Nice work
April 24, 2018 10:35 p.m.
buckeyetron says... #17
SeekerofSecrets: "were", not "where". and yes it is accurate. you christians want to quote the bible for literally everything else. you can't just cherry pick. either follow the WHOLE bible, or none of it. "rights" not "rites". and yes, not liking homosexual people IS homophobic. that is literally what "homophobic" means. there is no logic whatsoever that says i have to believe your beliefs. if you truly believe the punishment for homosexuality is burning for all eternity in a lake of fire, then there is no "free will". you cant say a person has free will if they're going to be punished for making the wrong choice. if a person told you to do something and had a gun to your head, would you still think you had free will? of course not.
April 24, 2018 11:19 p.m.
buckeyetron says... #18
Nillstan no shit im gonna attack your whole religion when you believe in literal fucking magic. according to your religion, your god sends people to hell. to say we send ourselves is just pure idiocy. you say its a sin because god gave man a woman? to find love in someone of the same gender is to spit in his face? thats just bullshit. love is love. people can have someone regardless of their gender. how fucking dare you try to say that 2 people can't be happy together for literally no other reason than because they have the same equipment between their legs. there is NOTHING in the bible i don't understand. do you even realize you literally just said slavery was acceptable? slavery was NEVER morally right at ANY point in time. common practice does not equal morally right. i don't care if everyone and their mother owned slaves back then, they were ALL WRONG. clearly i understand more than you. your religion is a fucking fairy tale lie created for nothing more than controlling the stupid masses.
April 24, 2018 11:26 p.m.
I generally do not like getting drawn into debates of this nature, but found buckeyetron's postings a tad aggressive, counterproductive, and non-representative, and wanted to provide a slightly more polite counterargument.
First and foremost, perhaps we should dispense with using "Christian" to refer to a single group--by either side of this debate. Christianity has been a divided religion from the very start--Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John could not agree which parts of the story were worth focusing on. The early Church was one lead by small local leaders with differing visions--which, after all, is why Paul wrote the epistles to give these groups guidance.
Today, there are probably as many interpretations of Christianity as there are Christians--a fact that can be said of any religion. Likewise, the views on issues of homosexuality differ greatly. Yes, there are those who see it as a sin--but this number is shrinking. The Episcopal Church, for example, officially declared homosexuals were equal back in the 1970s, and have welcomed homosexual priests and added official liturgy for same-sex marriages. The Cardinal of Rome himself has made several statements calling for better treatment of homosexuals by the Catholic Church.
So, please, let's not use phrases like "Christians believe that homosexuality is a sin yes." That statement is incredibly overbroad.
Moving on to a critique of your theological points:
First, let's start with this statement:
"Quoting passages from Hebrew law that are not applicable to our current society is not an accurate way to access the morality of our religion. Those passeges where writen by men and only aply to that culture at that time. They in no way reflect the common ideas about morality found throughout the bible. [sic]"
This is a poor statement to make in defense of your thesis, as it just as easily can cut against you as invalidate buckeyetron's citation of ancient Hebrew law.
The Bible does not specifically repudiate the rules regarding slavery--society did that, and then changed how we view scripture. God did not send an overt Commandment changing the perception on these passages; it merely happened. The same change in interpretation can, and already is, happening to the passages decrying homosexuality as Sin.
Second, let's talk about the word "homophobic." From a traditional definition standpoint, the word means harboring fear or hatred toward homosexuals. Now, both of you have said you do not mind homosexuallity, but perhaps you should reexamine your words. Here are some excerpts:
"Christians believe that homosexuality is a sin . . . . We also believe that the punishment for any sin is death".
"He also teaches that being gay is a sin against him, and that they'll be sent straight to hell for it."
Respectfully, damning someone to hell seems quite hateful, and seems quite homophobic. If you do not wish to be called same, perhaps reexamine the words you pick.
For my third point, both of your posts have committed a cardinal sin damning you to Hell, at least according to some sects of Christianity. Both of you have made the Prideful mistake of putting yourself in God's shoes and declaring divine Judgment upon your fellow man.
The point? There are lots of facets to Christian belief, and it's pretty easy to find some argument to support the damnation of a group you disagree with.
SeekerofSecrets listed five Sins: gambling, lying,cheating, being selfish, and murder. Notice how all four of these share a common thread--others are harmed by the behavior. Gambling is enrichment at another's expense. Lying gives someone else false information. Cheating gives an unfair advantage over another. Being selfish by definition occurs when you put yourself above others, to their expense. I think murder is self-explanatory.
Homosexuality is fundamentally different than what we would otherwise consider a Sin--it does not harm anyone else.
Overall, you have not provided a compelling case for why you homosexuality is a Sin. Your co-examples are easily distinguishable. Your textural justifications are easily dismissed using your very own dismissals.
You are, of course, free to believe whatever you want--just don't try to apply your own personal beliefs to the 2.2 billion other members of your faith.
buckeyetron, I can't stress this enough, your zealotry is not going to change hearts and minds, and the only effect your proselytizing will have is to anger your opponents without advancing your position. Rather than attacking someone's belief's with your own equally firm ones, you should try a rational discussion assuming arguendo some of their fundamental assumptions. This tends to be a much more effective method of discourse.
And that shall be all I have to say on this subject here. If anyone wishes to continue a discussion, feel free to enable chat with me.
Apologies Argy--I did not mean to join in the discussion hijacking your thread. Sometimes I find it difficult not to insert myself in a debate particularly if I take issue with all parties.
To write what I was going here to say: Good on Wizards. It's always nice to see companies that I love giving back to their players and the community as a while.
April 25, 2018 12:06 a.m. Edited.
buckeyetron says... #21
cdkime: yeah i tried debunking their arguments with logic, they wouldn't listen so naturally i got angry.
April 25, 2018 12:26 a.m.
Not to be that guy, but not liking homosexuals does not make you homophobic. Phobia denotes fear, you can dislike something without fearing it.
For example, I dont like vegetables, but Im not afraid of vegetables.
Someone who doesnt like people because theyre gay doesnt make them homophobic, it just makes them prejudice.
April 25, 2018 3:28 a.m.
When I read the post I thought it was gonna be something pink-washed by Wizard. But yeah this is actually pretty decent and Ive just ordered one myself. Despite not being there yet, it is nice to see decent effort from Wizard.
Now I am off to go do some gay shit with my girlfriends. Probably some cooking~
April 25, 2018 4:49 a.m.
OK so I didn't read the rumble above because quite frankly I have better things to do with my time.
If you want to make a thread in the Blind Eternities, then that is where you should express your dislike of homosexuality.
This topic supports LGBTQ people through promotion of a T shirt that supports them.
It looks as though a shirt like this is necessary, based on my guesses of how the conversation in this thread has proceeded.
This is how "homophobia" is defined:
homophobic
adjective
having or showing a dislike of or prejudice against homosexual people.
"homophobic remarks"
Its common usage has made it encompass more than just "fear".
flluid says... #2
Love the design! I wish they had the transgender flag colors as well.
April 24, 2018 10:17 a.m.