New into Legacy, need help to combat Miracles
Legacy Deck Help forum
Posted on July 28, 2015, 9:39 p.m. by Hashtag-Netdeck
Just built an Aluren deck, and here's some links to it:
At tappedout: Here
At mtggoldfish: Here
Forums about this deck can be found here and/or here
It's an Aluren deck, and I understand the deck forwards and backwards, but I need help combating certain decks, primarily Miracles, Grixis Control, and Sneak 'n' Show.
Thanks!
Hashtag-Netdeck says... #3
The only testing I've done so far was on tappedout, which I've heard has pretty unreliable shuffling.
But usually, I'll win on turn 4, but since I've heard that often times in PAPER Magic, the deck will usually win on Turn-4 (via playing lands every turn, an occasional Fetchland, and a Deathrite Shaman).
So in short, Ali from Cairo, I often times win on turn 3.5.
July 29, 2015 1:09 a.m.
Ali_from_cairo says... #4
So it doesn't seem asthough you will outrun any of those combo decks. I suggest getting a friend to help you practice and just proxy the generic deck you think you will have problems with. I'm thinking the mainboard disruption will help you, but more rec sages may be in order. Try it out in paper magic, and remember to shuffle like you would at a sanctioned event.
July 29, 2015 4:11 a.m.
Hashtag-Netdeck says... #5
Right now my only friend that plays Legacy plays burn, but I'll try and proxy (in addition to my Aluren Deck), multiple other decks, such as Miracles.
July 29, 2015 12:06 p.m.
OtakulordAndrew says... #6
If it's a matter of sneak and show I would recommend running a play set of Force of Will, over a playset of Abrupt Decay in the main while running 2-3 abrupt decay in the sideboard to bring in against decks such as delver, grixis pyromancer control, shardless bug, etc. as abrupt fairs very poorly against the majority of combo decks in the format while force is never a truly dead card against any one archetype and can help protect your combo when going off. I would also recommend swapping the Thoughtseizes in your main for Daze as the Cabal Therapys in your main should provide enough hand disruption provided you are familiar with the metagame and your opponent is running a well know archetype, also much like force daze is useful for protecting your combo when going off and as a countermeasure against other combo decks going off.
In terms of specific cards that you can bring in for these matchups from the sideboard, Gilded Drake is a great option the deck can bring in against show and tell variants, there isn't really any great specific hate for grixis control, or miracles the main thing to usually look for when playing against miracles is to put pressure on your opponent as early as possible with threats such as deathrite shaman and baleful strix while forcing them to always play around the possibility of you comboing off and having them devote resources to it. In terms of grixis control as long as you carefully play around young pyromancer by making sure to remove either from the hand or to either counter it as soon as it played or destroy it as soon as it hits the field the deck shouldn't be to threatening as you should be able to put out more threats than the opponent if they don't get pyromancer going and if an opportunity arises you can always attempt to combo off with no major repercussions.
July 29, 2015 3:29 p.m.
Hashtag-Netdeck says... #7
OtakulordAndrew, I think I will switch out the Abrupt Decays, but I don't think I'll put in Gilded Drake; I'm considering it, though.
July 29, 2015 3:45 p.m.
Hashtag-Netdeck says... #8
Ali_from_cairo, gnarlicide, ConBurnMadMan, OtakulordAndrew, Next_rim, NotSoLuckyLydia, bigguy99, ThatJunkMage, GoofyFoot, wish12oz, NoPantsParade, and ibanner56:
Here's the decklist & proxies I will be using for the time being: Click me, I'm a link!
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July 30, 2015 12:19 a.m.
gnarlicide says... #9
I can tell you with complete confidence that to beat Miracles, you need to go balls out aggro. Miracles needs some time to set up, and if they are too busy worrying about your horde of dudes, then they are not setting up.
Against Grixis Control? I am going to assume aggro all up that shit. I have never personally seen the list that Grixis uses, but since "control" is a word in the title, I am going to assume racing them is in order.
Sneak and show? Well, my friend... You really need to cross your fingers and hope you can kill them before they go off.
No shit, one time a sneak and show opponent did that sneak attack Emrakul bullshit. I sac all my permanents, and somehow... SOMEHOW manage to come back for the win, at 2 life. I had a goyf in hand, and top decked a Bayou and a Wasteland. It was literally a white knuckle drive the whole way home!
July 30, 2015 12:26 a.m.
OtakulordAndrew says... #10
I would say the decklist and proxies all look great and ready to put in some fun games of legacy. Also as a side note I got a good chuckle out of the link joke.
July 30, 2015 12:33 a.m.
Since I was tagged I guess I'll post my thoughts!
This is a combo deck. Combo decks lose to faster combo decks, and control decks, as you're saying. Why not go all out with it and try to increase the speed of your deck with Lotus Petals and more mana dorks and whatnot?
First question, what does black really do? I feel like you should just shoot for more counterspell effects to protect your combo when it goes off instead of trying to take their stuff with thoughtsieze. Mainly BC counters are free. (daze/force) or cost 1 (spell pierce/red-blue blast).You can play your Cavern Harpy for free after Aluren comes down right? So lets just shoot for that plan. And remove all the black, and add.... white, for enlightened tutor so we have more copies of aluren. Maybe something like...
4 Aluren
4 Daze
4 Ponder
I know it's pretty radically different from what you're currently doing, but this would enable you to combo faster, makes wasteland less useful to stop you (fetch basic forest t1 if youre worried, and drop a mana dork who makes all your colors), makes thalia less potent against you, makes counterspells worse against you, helps find your pieces faster, increases blue pitch cards for force and adds daze to help with combo matchups, and has lots of cantrips so you can cast 2-3 of them t2 to set up your hand, but I would play something more like this.
It should let you reliably play the combo on turn 3 with 2-3 counters and probe... 4 at worst. Plus it gives you lots of interaction against other combo decks.
If you could find some way to board into this maybe that could be good? I'm not really sure, I've never seen the deck before, but it seems slow by legacy standards, but the value creature package can probably win fair matchups pretty reliably, so I don't know how much you really want to drop that in favor of how I would do it.
July 30, 2015 12:54 a.m.
Hashtag-Netdeck says... #12
wish12oz, 2 disclaimers from my comment:
Yes, I have considered putting in Lotus Petal and Daze (which I will explain).
There is a vital reason I have black in the deck (which I will also explain).
First things first "This is a combo deck. Combo decks lose to faster combo decks, and control decks, as you're saying. Why not go all out with it and try to increase the speed of your deck with Lotus Petals and more mana dorks and whatnot?" The major problem with this is that in the Turn-1-to-Turn-3-range, you want to play cheap, efficient creatures (such as Deathrite Shaman, Baleful Strix, and Shardless Agent), and in the Turn-3-to-Turn-5 range, I'll play Aluren for the win.
Secondly, black is amazing in Aluren with Baleful Strix, Cavern Harpy, Cabal Therapy, and Thoughtseize, and since one of the black cards in the deck is Cavern Harpy (in case you don't know, Cavern Harpy is one of the Combo-Pieces in Aluren.
Also wish12oz, here's a link to my Aluren Deck, so you can check it out there (just thought you should know).
And finally, the reason I don't play white:
First, there's not much a reason to have Enlightened Tutor, given that I'm already running a playset of Aluren, in addition to 4 Intuition, meaning that I'm basically play 8 Alurens
I don't want to put Enlightened Tutor in place of Intuition, because while it can search for Baleful Strix, Shardless Agent, and Aluren, I feel that Intuition's ability that it can search for literally anything is better.
And I know Legacy is known for competitive 3, 4, and 5 color decks, but Taiga is the only red source in the deck (apart from Deathrite Shaman), so other than Aluren, Taiga's the only way to get out Imperial Recruiter, and six of my fetches are Flooded Strand and Polluted Delta.
(P.S.: I am interested in your idea of putting in Daze, Birds of Paradise, and even maybe Noble Hierarch.)
(P.P.S: Sorry for the long comment!)
July 30, 2015 11:51 a.m.
Well if you liked anything I said, Im glad I was helpful. GL with your endeavors, I know I wouldn't want to play this with my stoneblade deck lol.
July 30, 2015 11:40 p.m.
Hashtag-Netdeck says... #14
Thanks wish12oz; and believe me, everyone that has been in the forums with me or has just commented on my Aluren deck has helped unimaginably, yourself included. :)
Ali_from_cairo says... #2
I play 3 reclamation sages and similar discard in my elves list to combat it, although I'm sure that there is a better way to deal with those decks. Remember that the best way a combo deck can beat another combat deck is to simply go off faster. How often do you turn three win?
July 28, 2015 10:57 p.m.