Explain Legacy to someone who has never played or seen a game
Legacy forum
Posted on April 2, 2016, 11:08 p.m. by readerrw07
This is partly out of curiosity, and partly for my my own benefit of knowing about Legacy. Explain Legacy to a total Legacy noob, someone who has never watched a single game, let alone played one, or even attempted to build the most basic deck.
What kind of decks are most common?
How many decks are actually viable at an FNM level (if you happen to be lucky enough for a local store to have Legacy tournaments)
How beginner (for Legacy) friendly is the format? Would making a jump from Standard into Legacy perhaps be too much of a jump?
What would you say the minimum budget for a playable Legacy deck is?
Thanks for the answers everyone :)
readerrw07 says... #4
Heres a legit question from me. Is there a deck that uses Deathrite Shaman? My favorite card and its only legal here and in COmmander, and I dont wanna play GB in Commander
April 2, 2016 11:54 p.m.
CharonSquared says... #5
Yes, Esper Deathblade runs Deathrite as a 4 of. It's probably played in Elves too.
April 2, 2016 11:58 p.m.
EndStepTop says... #6
Elves deathblade, jund, Shardless bug, bug delver, 4c delver, and maverick all play DRS off the top of my head.
April 3, 2016 12:11 a.m.
TheManWithaPlan says... #7
Legacy is a format characterized by powerful cantrips like Brainstorm and Ponder, powerful creatures like Deathrite Shaman, Griselbrand and Delver of Secrets Flip, expensive AF dual lands, free Counterspells like Daze and Force of Will and powerful spells like Show and Tell, Sylvan Library and Chalice of the Void.
Legacy is a format that rewards familiarity because of the number of decision trees that a game of Legacy presents. What makes this true as opposed to Modern, where this isn't as true, is that there are far more decision trees than in Modern. Take for example Brainstorm. This card is the most powerful and one of the hardest spells to play correctly in Legacy. Often the hardest spells to play correctly in Legacy are the ones that present the most decision trees.
Legacy Burn:
I Prefer my Opponents Smoked
Legacy
SCORE: 3 | 3 COMMENTS | 382 VIEWS | IN 2 FOLDERS
It's a deck that has a very low skill floor and has a moderate skill ceiling. The deck is simple, but it's good you can read more about my Burn list I've had relative success with.
As with Local FNM's I am extremely lucky to have a weekly FNM and even more so on Wednesday and Thursday there are Legacy tournaments. Not many places in other cities around the world can support these events.
When building a Legacy deck, 1/3 of the cost of most decks comes from the manabase. Test and play decks extensively to find the right deck for you before digging yourself into a $3,000 hole that is very difficult to get out of.
April 3, 2016 7:45 a.m. Edited.
aeonstoremyliver says... #8
Legacy = best format ever. Force of Will, Wasteland, Daze, Cabal Therapy, Brainstorm, etc are all potent cards that see a lot of play.
To add to what's been aptly put regarding the format, Legacy rewards good plays and punishes misplays heavily. Games are often decided very quickly and a misplay can cost you the game. As far as archetypes, there are several T1 decks, and even some T2 decks can come out of nowhere for the win. Miracles, Show and Tell variants, Delver variants, Elves, Goblins, Merfolk, Jund, Stoneblade variants, Death and Taxes, Zoo, Maverick, Reanimator, Storm, Dredge, Affinity, 12 Post, and Burn are all viable and potent decks. Things like Food Chain, Tin Fins, Nic Fit, and so forth are also viable.
Deathrite Shaman is used in a variety of decks, but most potent in an attrition based strategy like Dead Guy Ale, Abzan, Jund, Esper, and Sultai. I personally like him best in Abzan, but that's a preference. Elves even plays a Bayou for him.
As previously stated, definitely proxy and playtest with cards before diving in and dropping $1-3K. That being said, it's a rewarding format and well worth investing into.
April 3, 2016 8:47 a.m.
readerrw07 says... #9
Another question. Without playing Burn, can someone have a reasonably good experience with Legacy for $500? I found a primer that list deck after deck for $300 or less... when the primer was made. Currently everything on said primer costs upwards of $700
April 3, 2016 2:53 p.m.
TheManWithaPlan says... #10
Don't play a worse version of something, if you don't have some of the cards, borrow.
April 3, 2016 2:56 p.m.
ToolmasterOfBrainerd says... #12
For $500, you're stuck playing a mono-colored deck. You could definitely build Elves without Gaea's Cradle, and that even plays 4 Deathrite Shaman, but your win rate will be hit by not have Cradle. However, I have to think it will be playable and do okay. I recommend testing it on untap.in before you buy it.
April 4, 2016 2:39 p.m.
TheManWithaPlan says... #13
One thing you could do is play the "Glass Cannon" decks like Belcher, Oops All Spells or Manaless Dredge. However if you want to actually play Magic I would recommend staying away from these decks.
Remember Legacy is not a format that you can cut costs for, you just have to face the harsh reality and pay up if you want to play the format and have a good shot at winning.
April 4, 2016 4:43 p.m.
$500 may be feasible to build Death and Taxes, depending on what's in Eternal Masters. Its expensive cards are Rishadan Port, Wasteland, Horizon Canopy, and AEther Vial, all of which can be reprinted within the near future. The only card that's expensive and on the reserved list (and thus will never be reprinted) is Karakas.
If Rishadan Port and Wasteland come down in price, you'd spend around $300 on a playset of each, another $100 on AEther Vials, and then the final $100 on the bulk rares, commons, and uncommons that make up the deck. It's also easy to build into other decks once you have the disruption mana base.
Fish is similar, in that its expensive cards are Wasteland, Force of Will, and AEther Vial, all of which can/will see a reprint. The expensive part is all the 4-of lords required for the deck, most of which fetch for $10+ each.
I would avoid glass-cannon combo. You need Lion's Eye Diamond to play those decks effectively and you lose to a single, well-timed Force of Will. You can, however, build Dredge on less than $200 once you have 4x Lion's Eye Diamond.
Nic-fit and Mono-Black Reanimator are on the cheaper side if turn 1 or 2 Griselbrand sounds hilarious and up your alley. They can also be converted into decks like Punishing Jund or Show and Tell later on down the road.
There's a whole host Goblin Bombardment-based combo decks. Several of them benefit tremendously from having Deathrite Shaman. You mostly rely on fetchlands and play inexpensive dual lands (i.e. Plateau) as 1-ofs.
Aluren is a really cool deck that also plays Deathrite Shaman. However, it's often 5 colors with blue dual lands. I'd have to look around, but there may be mono-green or G/B versions of it floating around.
There's also this hilarious control/combo deck built around Restore Balance. It's less vulnerable than Oops! All Spells, but can be built for dirt-cheap.
As you can see, there's a whole bunch of decks in Legacy and a lot of room for brewing. As others have said, the format is largely focused on powerful draw spells like Brainstorm. The other factor that becomes apparent is how much the format focuses on disrupting mana bases, whereas Standard, your lands never get touched. The format also leads to a lot of blowouts that can be hard, if not impossible, to recover from.
One of the misconceptions about the format is that it's all about a coin toss and turn 1 kills. That couldn't be farther from the truth. In fact, I'd say it's slower than Modern. Sometimes, it's even slower than Standard! That's because players have more and better options at interacting early on, starting before turn 1 even begins.
April 7, 2016 7:50 a.m.
@readerrw07: Oh shit that's right. I forgot it's an uncommon and was also reprinted as a judge promo.
All the more reason D&T will become cheaper if we get the right cards in Eternal Masters! :D
April 7, 2016 2:08 p.m.
readerrw07 says... #17
Yeah, really I'm thinking the only reason Karakas hasnt already been reprinted is because they really cant put it anywhere
Standard Reprint? Yeah flippin right. That thing is waaaay OP for standard and has been for a while
Commander reprint? Banned
Modern Master? Not legal in Modern
Conspiracy-type set? Pretty sure its too powerful for Limited but I could be wrong
Really Eternal Masters is the only place Karakas could possibly fit I think, besides Judge Promos or Event Promos
Also arent Judge Promos exempt from the reserved list? Or was Gaea's Cradle a judge promo pre-Reserved List?
Also Death and Taxes was the deck I was thinking of anyway. Non-Blue control that doesnt require a single dual land or Force of Will? Sign me the heck up if the lands get reprints (Which I am in agreement with everyone Ive asked that the other two lands are likely to be reprinted). Also Canopy is a one of in most lists Ive seen so Ive basically passed on including that, barring a very lucky Oath booster
April 7, 2016 8:42 p.m. Edited.
DarkMagician says... #18
readerrw07 I don't see how it would be to powerful in Standard if there's not a ton of Legendary creatures running around. Or in any limited format either for the same reason.
April 25, 2016 11:09 a.m.
ToolmasterOfBrainerd says... #19
DarkMagician true, from a power standpoint it's a fine card to reprint, but the last time a card worth $150 was reprinted was Tarmogoyf in modern masters. Karakas would have to be reprinted in a similar type of set, but since it's not in super high demand, the price would crash, pissing off collectors.
April 25, 2016 11:20 a.m.
DarkMagician says... #20
ToolmasterOfBrainerd Wizards doesn't care about collectors beyond the reserve list though so that shouldn't be a hold up.
April 25, 2016 11:45 a.m.
readerrw07 says... #22
Maybe I'm wrong then, I dunno. As for the collector thing, my viewpoint is summed up well as "screw collectors, support people playing the game over people hoarding cards" But thats just me. I'm an a-hole like that
April 25, 2016 11:15 p.m.
ToolmasterOfBrainerd says... #23
I'm totally in favor of reprints as well. I want the game to be affordable for anyone. I feel as if I've cheated the game since I'm playing legacy as a high-school kid, which isn't supposed to happen based on card prices, but I love the format and want more people to be able to afford it since it's such a fun format.
However, when WOTC doesn't reprint cards for long enough, like with Karakas, they get expensive to a point where they can't really be reprinted in a normal set, and then we're stuck. Force of Will, Wasteland, Rishadan Port, Damnation, Snapcaster Mage, Liliana of the Veil, etc: all non-reserved, yet too expensive to reprint into Standard.
April 25, 2016 11:32 p.m.
Greendawg81 says... #24
Force of Will,Force of Will,Force of Will,Force of Will. Everything else is just eye candy
April 26, 2016 9:12 a.m.
EndStepTop says... #25
Better beat the "legacy=FoW" joke beyond its death.
EndStepTop says... #2
It's like playing magic as a super sayin.
Blue oriented interactive(midrange/tempo/control) decks.
A lot, the format rewards knowledge of your metagame and deck, tight logical plays and over all being good at magic, the abundance of high power cantrips and card quality limits the effect variance has.
The format isn't actually very beginer friendly. The skill level compared to other formats in order to do well is fairly high and lots of people will stick with the same deck for years, and know their matchups like the back of their hand. With all this said, if your determined this isn't a problem, and the process is rewarding.
Burn is cheaper in legacy than modern, and there's plenty of non t1 decks that are perfectly viable if you know what your doing.
April 2, 2016 11:32 p.m. Edited.