Lotus Petal vs. Chrome Mox
Legacy forum
Posted on Jan. 28, 2025, 11:22 a.m. by ChaosJester
As the title says, I am interested in the opinion of the Legacy Community on both cards, which are inherently different:
Lotus Petal does does not require to exile a hand card but has to be sacrificed. The Chrome Mox on the other hand, is permanently on the field but comes with the cost to exile a hand card. Which of those cards would you play in an 8-Rack Deck, in addition to Dark Ritual to increase the Tempo?
Not competitive (especially Legacy), but I'm an 8-Rack enthusiast.
Setting up fast is important. Once you have your Rack lock set up, at least in my experience, you only really need a couple mana each turn, so the mana from that Chrome Mox might be less valuable than the card that got imprinted. Especially with a set of Dark Rituals, it should be easy to set at least one Rack effect and a Hymn to Tourach or Thoughtseize on turn 1 and build with 1-2 mana a turn from there, with a little burst for Liliana of the Veil or Ensnaring Bridge or whatever as needed.
So my vote's for the Lotus Petal. Prioritizing your denial and removal seems more important than a guaranteed extra each turn, but I'd be very interested to see how well it works in practice.
January 28, 2025 8:04 p.m.
Chrome Mox also doesn't allow you to exile large parts of the deck so it requires more specific pieces.
January 29, 2025 5:08 a.m.
veritablecvn says... #5
I play both cards in my Legacy Soldier Stompy deck. It's not 8-Rack, but I have taken it to multiple tournaments. I run 4x Lotus Petal and 2x Chrome Mox. I run more Lotus Petal because I try to minimize losing another card from my hand, which can matter quickly in a stompy deck, and then it matters even more if I'm playing against discard. There have been many times where I really don't want to lose a card to Chrome Mox but I have to since I don't have a Lotus Petal and need the explosive turn one play. Having the multiple activations definitely helps if the game goes long though.
All that to be said, try it out. Playtest a lot by yourself or with friends, try all different combinations of the cards. As you're playtesting, ask yourself if having the other card would make the game go even better for you. Take notes and then evaluate the data before your next tournament.
January 29, 2025 7:59 a.m.
ChaosJester says... #6
Thank you for the very valuable Feedback, guys. I will keep the Lotus Petal and Test the Chrome Mox as a Single copy. I guess I will run into the same problem to not want to exile a hand card but you have at least the game experience. Thank you!
January 29, 2025 8:42 a.m.
I guess your question has been answered, but I forgot to post mine yesterday, so here we go!
I don't think you'd need either in a Rack list (both are card disadvantage, and Rack runs out of cards quickly if it uses Thoughtseize style cards), but if you're thinking about them for your Chains list I guess they both make more sense, specifically because your deck is designed to set up a lock, and setting up a lock a turn sooner is WAY better than in a traditional Rack list, though hitting someone with a turn 0 Hymn can end games on the spot if you get lucky, so if you've got the resources it might be worth it vs faster decks.
If you do want to use one in that Chains list, I'd use Lotus Petal because it's hassles and better fixing, handy since you're in Rakdos right?
January 29, 2025 9:11 a.m.
ChaosJester says... #8
Thank you for your Feedback DreadKhan! Indeed, the question is related to my pseudo 8-Rack deck haha, and you are fully right. After playtesting the deck, I have noticed the importance of an explosive first turn (Tempo) and the need to play out at least two Chains constantly. Not sure about the mana base yet, and the possibility to run Raven's Crime which needs more swamps. Do you have any suggestions regarding the inclusion of that card? My feeling is that its dredge effect is great but playing only swamps does not seem right in a Legacy deck which is a very fast Format.
January 29, 2025 9:40 a.m.
I'm not sure if I missed something, but I don't think Raven's Crime specifically needs Swamps, you can discard any land to cast it from the graveyard. It's a pretty strong card in a Rack list IMHO, and worth running if you find you draw lands when you'd rather have drawn a Raven's Crime. I think with a deck like yours, where you're at 19 lands and have only 6 3 drops (and an average MV well under 2) you can expect to not need lands after a few turns, so I don't know that you'd need to add more Swamps (or lands in general) to derive value from Raven's Crime.
IMHO there are still certain archetypes that are viable in Legacy that aren't always fast, and Rack is one of them. The existence of Force of Will means people can't design decks that are so greedy that they scoop to a single FoW (or Force of Negation), so grindy decks will have a place. Even if they don't run FoW in their own deck, it's omnipresent enough that we all get herd immunity to a certain level of greed. On the downside it means certain decks will always be kinda good, a timely Thoughtseize can be much better than FoW, and a Rack deck can also throw a Hymn out early; do you FoW the Hymn, or risk it and end up unable to FoW anything and are still down 2 cards? As long as you have enough creature hate I find you can still win games vs aggro (much harder now with The One Ring, but you're VERY well placed vs it with Chains x4) as well, and your ability to lock people out of drawing can give you the time to win.
Ultimately, is it a bad situation when you're using Raven's Crime? Probably, but the alternative is just having to scoop IMHO. That's why I'd probably try it out as a x1 or x2 and see how often it saves your bacon. You can also use Entomb to put Crime straight into the bin, and include a copy of Bloodghast or Nether Spirit if you already drew your Crime. It's the kind of card I think you'd add to give your deck more grindy options when desperate, but IMHO if your combo is set up you don't need Raven's Crime.
My final thought is that with your Dark Confidant you can draw extra lands to feed Raven's Crime, as long as you have access to Black mana, maybe this is where the extra Swamps concern came from? You could always toss in Blood Crypt
if you don't want to buy more Badlands, you'd always get the OG dual first, or a Basic if it will work, so you don't notice the Crypt's drawback as much. I feel like if you're hitting the opponent with 1 Crime per turn roughly (counting an extra card from Dark Confidant) you might not need much more support to get your Racks online other than a Chains or two to prevent the opponent from drawing extra cards. YMMV but I think it's worth trying out x1 or x2, as long as you have a couple Racks out it'll be a lot of pressure.
Hope some of this helps!
Balaam__ says... #2
Most of my decks are not tuned for optimal competitive play so take my appraisal with a grain of salt, but I’d lean toward Lotus Petal being the card you’d want to run. Free mana when you need it, zero stipulations. I suppose an argument could be made that in a slightly grindy archetype you’d want a recurring advantage, but I’m a firm believer in speed > any other advantage when it comes to simply winning.
January 28, 2025 12:01 p.m.