No more Dig Through Time!
Legacy forum
Posted on Sept. 28, 2015, 11:02 a.m. by Spencerbot15
What will blue decks do? Will they go for Ponder/Preordain or will they go for something different all together?
Krankenwagon says... #5
http://magic.wizards.com/en/gameinfo/gameplay/formats/bannedrestricted
September 28, 2015 11:09 a.m.
Servo_Token says... #6
Just look up the B&R list for today. It's the real deal. Chalice of the Void and dig are restricted in vintage, thirst is back, and Black Vise is unbanned in legacy. No other changes.
September 28, 2015 11:10 a.m.
reverendvile777 says... #8
"rip Omnitell"
It's not like Omni-Tell wasn't a deck before Dig Through Time. Magic players are such overdramatic doomsayers.
Black Vise being unbanned is really interesting.
September 28, 2015 11:32 a.m.
Well, I guess it was only a matter of time before Dig Through Time joined Treasure Cruise in the "busted blue card" Hall of Fame.
I don't play much legacy, but even I can see that casting Dig Through Time and grabbing Force of Will and another blue card is really powerful. Now I guess we get to see how the metagame develops ahead of GP Seattle-Tacoma.
September 28, 2015 11:43 a.m.
EndStepTop says... #11
reverendvile777 Omni was far less represented prior to dig. The deck was insanely resilent and consistent with that card. It will still be playable as it was, but it won't be nearly as oppressive (albeit relative with the power level of legacy).
September 28, 2015 11:43 a.m.
hello $1 binder at the LGS...kind of a shame, as degenerate as it the card was, it really did offer a bigger challenge to the non blue player. Back to standard only stardom for you DTT, you will surely be missed
September 28, 2015 12:10 p.m.
This seems like a pretty terrible decision. It's almost as if Wizards doesn't know it's own game's color wheel. Blue counters stuff and draws cards. That's what it's done since the beginning. But now Wizards bans all the good draw spells and refuses to print any decent new counters. At this rate the health of the game is definitely in jeopardy.
September 28, 2015 12:43 p.m.
kmcree - That's not what's happening. Dig Through Time was abnormally increasing Blue's already large share of the Legacy Metagame, pushing out non-blue decks and making them unable to compete. Also this is Legacy, if this was in Standard then you'd have an argument.
September 28, 2015 12:45 p.m.
It's now essentially in all formats. Dig is officially banned everywhere but EDH and restricted in Vintage. Same with Cruise. All the good cantrips are banned in Modern. And Blue isn't getting much of anything new. It's not a good trend for blue players.
September 28, 2015 12:49 p.m.
aeonstoremyliver says... #17
I called it a week ago lol. Blue decks that ran Dig, like Omni Tell, Delver, and Miracles, became insanely more consistent with the ability to Brainstorm twice for just about 
. The prevalence of decks using Dig was quite notable indeed.
I think we'll see a more open playing field with Dig gone, and decks that currently use it will probably use more Ponder and Preordain, as mentioned in the OP.
Agreed that Black Vise being unbanned is interesting. Wonder what we'll see from that? New archetypes? Just some sideboard tech, or both? That's exciting.
September 28, 2015 12:49 p.m.
kmcree - Sorry, but all I hear is whining. You haven't provided a good argument for why Dig shouldn't be banned. Complaining about blue not having good card draw in Legacy is absurd. The card that should be banned but won't ever be is Brainstorm. Aside from Ancestral Recall, Brainstorm might be the best 1-mana card that says "draw three cards" on it. Especially in any format with fetchlands. You can read whatever you want into the B&R announcement, just know that you're incorrect.
September 28, 2015 12:59 p.m.
greenkingwashere says... #19
Its funny how a stupid good card like that will be almost worthless soon.
September 28, 2015 1:04 p.m.
Along the lines of what aeonstoremyliver said, what will Black Vise do for the format? Where will it be played? New archetypes? Thoughts?
September 28, 2015 1:12 p.m.
JWiley129: I'm talking about new cards. Sure Brainstorm is fantastic, but name a single blue card that's been printed in the last 3 years (since Snap) that's had an impact on eternal formats and not been almost insta banned. People bitch about how expensive blue is to play in eternal formats, it's because almost all of the powerful blue spells are old. Nothing new is being printed in that color, while other colors are getting shiny new toys. The idea behind the color wheel is to balance power level between colors. Blue has gotten the shaft for the better part of 3 years now.
September 28, 2015 1:16 p.m.
klone13: Stasis + Howling Mine + Forsaken City + Black Vise :)
September 28, 2015 1:16 p.m.
Spencerbot15 says... #23
What do we think Omni-tell will drop to? Tier 3?
September 28, 2015 1:21 p.m.
mathimus55 says... #24
I wouldn't so much say it's blue is getting the shaft, but letting other colors catch up wouldn't be a stretch. Blue is still the most played color in legacy because it still has so much inherent power. When was the last time white got a new staple that pulled people towards that color? I'm ok with the banning. Even as I'm testing and looking towards shardless bug I'm ok with Dig being gone.
September 28, 2015 1:25 p.m.
kmcree - That's where you're missing the point. Wizards tries to balance the colors for Standard. Legacy and Vintage are too far gone to fix now. No matter what Wizard does short of banning Brainstorm, Blue decks will take up a significant portion of the metagame. However they can manage how much blue there is in Legacy. Dig Through Time was pushing Blue decks too much, causing a decline in non-blue decks. This has nothing to do with Wizards going "Blue can't draw cards anymore" but "Blue is drawing cards too well"
Also, this has nothing to do with new cards they may be printing. Wizards has said time and time again that they only test for Standard and Limited, and that they won't be "held hostage by the past" when it comes to designing new cards. If a card becomes a problem, which Dig has, then they will ban it.
September 28, 2015 1:44 p.m.
I'm not talking purely about Legacy. I'm talking about the recent trend with respects to new cards. Dig and Cruise are pretty much the only 2 new blue cards to be printed in the last 3 years that were playable in eternal formats. And they were essentially insta banned. All of the playable blue cards are old. Cards like Brainstorm, FoW, JTMS, etc have all been around for years. Nothing new is making any kind of impact on the format in blue, and it's because as soon as it does, it's banned. Wizards has said time and again they want a more creature based game. They refuse to print any new playable counters, and ban any playable card draw outside of Brainstorm/JTMS. Even the removal they've printed in the last couple years has been bad. It's a trend that is very discouraging for anyone who wants more from MTg than just sideways creatures. And this only continues the trend.
September 28, 2015 2:53 p.m.
PhyrexianScience says... #27
I feel like this is a kind of "reverse discrimination" thing for MTG. Giving people rights is not the same as taking them away from others.
This parallels the discussion very well; blue has enjoyed a life of OP cards for a long time. Now it's time for the other colours to rise up to blue's level, and we can't give blue any OP cards if building up other colours is the goal.
September 28, 2015 3:02 p.m.
EndStepTop says... #28
Dig was degenerate regardless of wizards current "90 degree rotate fest" mentality.
September 28, 2015 3:26 p.m.
kmcree - I think I'm beginning to see the issue. In order for a non-creature spell to break into an eternal format, it needs to be exceptional. This is true because in early Magic non-creatures were at a 8-9/10 in terms of power level and creatures were around 2-3/10. In today's Magic, Creatures and Spells are about equal at I'd say 5/10 each (plus/minus 1 here and there). As a function of this, better and better creatures get printed. However that doesn't mean that Wizards doesn't print good non-creature spells. Treasure Cruise and Dig Through Time are proof enough for that.
Yes, Wizards is making creatures better. But that's because the research shows that Magic is at its best when there is interaction and creatures and spells are on an even keel. Don't forget that just last year Ivan Flok won PT Magic 2015 with a creatureless control deck.
But this is off-topic of Dig being banned, which it was rightfully so having seen some of the debate on whether it should be banned in Legacy.
September 28, 2015 3:54 p.m.
CanadianShinobi says... #30
So I was hoping to build Esper Mentor or Grixis Control to get into the format... should I abandon these plans now that dig is gone?
September 28, 2015 5:04 p.m.
fluffybunnypants says... #31
I doubt Grixis Delver drops off the face of the planet entirely, but it won't put up numbers quite as impressive as it did before. Grixis control is will drop off the face of the planet entirely. Omnitell was a deck before Dig Through Time, so it may still exist, but Sneak and Show will be a real deck again. Welcome back RUG, BUG and possibly UR Delver with Black Vises in the main!
September 28, 2015 5:11 p.m.
CanadianShinobi says... #32
fluffybunnypants I'll take that as a yes... sigh
September 28, 2015 5:16 p.m.
fluffybunnypants says... #33
I mean, you can try Esper Mentor, but Miracles will probably go back to just being the strictly better control deck.... and probably the best Mentor deck too.
September 28, 2015 5:21 p.m.
Basically if you want to play control in Legacy, you need to play miracles. Which really is more of a prison style deck, but who cares. Nobody seems to like control anyway...
September 28, 2015 5:37 p.m.
Very sad about Dig banning, but I see how it was necessary. Guess I should trade away my foils now.
September 28, 2015 6:04 p.m.
I understand why dig was banned in legacy since it is super busted. All the same my stiflenought deck cries in a corner at the loss of it's tutor of stupidness. No longer can I tell someone I'm "digging for Daze"
September 28, 2015 6:44 p.m.
Serendipitous_Hummingbird says... #37
you guys raise an interesting question though. what would the format look like without brainstorm, jtms, and fow?
September 28, 2015 7:05 p.m.
NotSoLuckyLydia says... #38
Serendipitous_Hummingbird it would be combo hell and aggressively unfun.
September 28, 2015 8:18 p.m.
Named_Tawyny says... #39
Wow. I'd thought that Dig would eventually get the unban in modern - I suppose that's not happening anytime soon.
Really dislike the reasoning behind the Chalice restriction - "it makes it tough for people to play moxen and we don't want them to have to adjust" just seems.... wrong?
September 30, 2015 11:25 p.m.
T1 Black Lotus -> Chalice of the Void x=o -> -> Ancestral Recall -> Chalice of the Void x=1
Apparently that play is too good.
September 30, 2015 11:41 p.m.
kmcree, Shardless Bug is also an option for control in legacy.
I am very happy with the banning. I have quite a few friends who play non-blue decks and they had a terrible time while dig was legal.
And I am just so excited that BUG delver is way better positioned now.
October 1, 2015 10:40 a.m.
NotSoLuckyLydia says... #42
Named_Tawyny, while I dislike the reasoning they wrote out (It seems like they're worried about hatebears and goblins???) I definitely have been on board the restrict chalice train for a while. The issue that I (and quite a few other vintage players) have with it is that it's close to unbeatable when Shops decks are on the play. The ability to shut off all one drops on turn one so easily makes it really problematic for every deck in the format EXCEPT shops. It's even caused some people to just accept losses to shops, just looking to win other matchups.
October 1, 2015 6:14 p.m.
Greendawg81 says... #43
Well that scraps my plans to play legacy. I was almost done building grixis control, but the deck really needs dig. Legacy is just too expensive for me to bother starting over with a new build. I guess ill have to bite the bullet, throw some of the cards in my edh decks and sell/ trade the rest for modern staples. RIP Dig Through Time and my hopes of playing legacy.
October 3, 2015 10:47 a.m.
ThisIsBullshit says... #44
You can trade away the cards you have for cards for a different deck....
October 3, 2015 10:49 a.m.
Greendawg81 says... #45
Meh, I really liked grixis delver plus I already have most peices for Modern Twin, Merfolk, Abzan Midrange and Tron. I can probably finish off all those decks with sideboard easier than i could transition to a different legacy deck. Other than 2 more goyfs, 2 more arid mesas, 2 more Oblivion Stones, the rest of the peices i need are all cheap and plentiful. I play EDH more than anything and you can never have enough duals, thats also a factor for me as well.
EndStepTop says... #2
Good. Omnitell was degenerate. I imagine those decks may run 1/2 jace to fill the card advantage slots, and open up some flex spots.
September 28, 2015 11:06 a.m.