No Reserve List Legacy
Legacy forum
Posted on Feb. 16, 2016, 11:58 a.m. by Monsmtg
I know this has been discussed in many places (not sure if T/O), but what do you think of no reserve list legacy? Would it work? What decks would be good?
TheAnnihilator says... #2
Another note, this format doesn't have to be exactly like Legacy to be worth playing. Just because the format would look entirely different doesn't mean it isn't worth the time.
February 23, 2016 2:05 p.m.
alanwescoat says... #3
The easy thing to do is to ban the Reserved List and every other card which is already banned in Legacy. Of course, someone cold go to the trouble of looking at the few cards which are banned but not on the Reserved List, work to figure out why they were banned, and determine if they should remain banned. My guess is that in every case, whatever got banned needs to remain banned.
As for what decks would be good, that would make in interesting question. My hope of playing Squirrels competitively is dashed because Deranged Hermit is on the Holy Reserved List of Abandoned Intellectual Property.
I see this format as a future go-to Eternal format, one which stands to be an amazing amount of fun.
February 24, 2016 12:53 a.m.
Aaron Forsythe already confirmed that Eternal Masters is not an indication that they are working on a new format. If a player base wanted to do that, they could try.
Honestly, trying to make a No-Ban List modern would be better, easier, and a more interesting format than a No-Reserve List Legacy.
February 24, 2016 1:12 a.m.
TheAnnihilator says... #5
@kyuuri117 I will concede that one, it's possible that a Modern restart would be more interesting. Still, I'd kindof prefer a "fixed" Modern and a N-R-L Legacy, so there could be a mix of non-rotating formats that all have differing metas.
February 24, 2016 8:28 a.m.
alanwescoat says... #6
I think that many here are really missing a key idea. Money is not the entire issue. There is a supply issue, a huge one. There simply are not enough of the critical cards in the world for development of a competitive Legacy scene at most of the venues. UNRESERVED presents an opportunity for numerous players worldwide to play something like Legacy. It is really that simple.
The format is still going to be expensive, and we can guarantee that, the price-gougers will run amok as usual. They always do.
The advantage is that any card in the format could stand a chance of being reprinted. Beyond that, it would stand a great chance of making a whole lot of the cards in Eternal Masters useful. Imagine that you crack open your overpriced pack and get seven or eight cards that you could actually use in a deck in a fun format. There is some value there. On the other hand, if we just stick to Vintage, Legacy, and Modern, nothing pre-modern is going to be especially useful outside of E.D.H. (provided it is even useful there).
The people opposed to development of UNRESERVED as an informal format are somewhat baffling. It is akin to polo players denouncing the invention of field hockey, as though not having access to a horse means that people should not still have fun playing something similar to polo and more accessible.
M.T.G. is an awesome game. Any format which leads to more play of M.T.G. which people enjoy is a great thing.
I am excited to see what kinds of deck ideas come out of this. The fact that UNRESERVED hoses a whole lot of Legacy decks is exciting. That means that the format is wide open for a whole new wave of quality decksmithing.
February 24, 2016 9:32 a.m.
Epochalyptik says... #7
I'm unimpressed that you're treating "unreserved" as some sort of foregone conclusion.
I'm also unimpressed by your analogy. Polo and field hockey don't depend on the same constrained and shared economic and supply structure that Magic formats do. You're throwing away precisely the thing that grounds player concern and saying that players have no basis to be concerned.
February 24, 2016 9:46 a.m.
Let me get this straight; Eldrazi is running at or nearly at 50% of the modern meta and Wizards refuses to emergency ban it (likely because it's selling cards.)
So...Wizards has made Standard painful to play and outright failed to maintain Modern. You want them to crack the reserve list NOW?! To what end? So they can ruin the rest of Magic's formats all at once?
February 24, 2016 10:09 a.m.
alanwescoat says... #9
See, this is why I tried a separate thread for this.
- UNRESERVED is not about changing Legacy. It can stay.
- UNRESERVED is not concerned about the Reserved List. It can stay.
- UNRESERVED does not call for Wizards doing anything at all. It has to come from the players the way E.D.H. did.
This is why I wanted a separate thread where it was discussed as a new format driven by players who love the game, not as a modification to Legacy. People are defensive of Legacy, and I want to leave it alone in discussion of UNRESERVED.
I really do not understand why some Legacy players are expressing so much concern. They can still play Legacy as much as they like with their gradually dwindling player base. Nobody is asking them to stop playing Legacy. It is totally okay for them to do so. It is a respectable and venerable elite tradition, bound to last until a certain portion of Reserved List cards are graded and slabbed forever.
Certain comments here incline me to think that the numerous and vociferous objections to M.T.G. players playing the game as they want to play it is not at all about the health of the game and about established monetary values. It seems laughably similar to Wall Street trying to get everyone else to prioritize Wall Street's concerns over their own personal interests.
At the end of the day, our playgroups can all choose to play M.T.G. in any way we like. I think that UNRESERVED is a great idea, with fabulous open territory for decksmithing in a card pool modestly larger than the card pool for Modern, a format which can be enjoyed by more players. More players means more fun. More players also means more trading on the secondary market.
As for the polo/field hockey analogy, real estate is limited. Those railing against UNRESERVED are akin to polo players demanding that land used for field hockey be used exclusively for polo instead, which is nonsense.
There is nothing wrong with trying to make a new format. People are excited about Eternal Masters because the want to play Legacy. The set will not enable that, but we can decide to play something similar in UNRESERVED. It is a simple choice.
February 24, 2016 6:21 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #10
So propose it here. This thread has been addressing both Legacy with the RL banned and a new format that just doesn't include the RL.
The reason Legacy players are defensive is that the distinction between the two is being poorly articulated in these suggestions, and that the need for and merit of a new format are being assumed rather than proved.
As for the analogy, now you're just stretching it. Your original analogy indicated that the polo players were already there, much like the Legacy players. Now you're simply trying to make Legacy players look like bullies and elitists while trying to make "unreserved" players look like the downtrodden crusaders.
Whatever your motivation, try articulating the reality of the situation next time rather than just trumpeting your own ideas because you believe them to be inherently better. You might find that people are receptive to good ideas voiced well.
February 24, 2016 6:57 p.m.
And while you're trying to drum up support for a new format, stay away from the "Legacy is dying" argument. Legacy gets bigger every year, and the supply of reserve list cards is nowhere near drying up. Vendors have binders upon binders of duals, power nine, and other reserved list cards, which is the reason why these cards are so expensive. They control the price of the cards, much like the Russian government controls the price of the diamond business. It's not a lack of supply, it's that supply is intentionally being throttled.
February 24, 2016 7:01 p.m. Edited.
TheAnnihilator says... #12
I have to admit that I agree with alanwescoat in that this isn't intended as a Legacy replacement. That said, probably could replace Legacy if it catches on, probably due to resentment about the reserve list and the typical cost of a competitive Legacy deck. Not saying it would tho.
"Unreserved" is more like a new format that is predicated on the same ideals that Legacy is defined by -- a way to use older cards in a constructed format that includes a bigger card pool and higher power level than Modern. I would argue that it addresses some of the flaws with Legacy (others would certainly disagree with me, but that's to be expected).
@alanwescoat I don't mean to offend, but you come off as a bit eccentric when you constantly type "Unreserved" in all caps and make everything you post about "Unreserved" come off as some sort of sales pitch. You may want to tone it down a little. I also think a better name than "Unreserved" could be brainstormed. xD
February 24, 2016 7:03 p.m.
TheAnnihilator says... #13
@ Epochalyptik To be fair, the "need and merit" for the proposed format is closely tied to Legacy and the controversies surrounding Legacy since the formats are similar in theory and setup.
February 24, 2016 7:11 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #14
I don't dispute that. But "Legacy sucks" and "Legacy players are elitists" are poor arguments to support a Legacy Lite of any description. If the proposal is for a format that's meant to exist alongside Legacy, then there needs to be a demonstrated need for such a format to exist between current Legacy and Modern. Further, it needs to be demonstrated that such a format is sustainable in that position given the current investment of players in both bordering formats and the economic realities of the game.
February 24, 2016 7:16 p.m.
fluffybunnypants says... #15
Okay. So. You want to play Legacy without the duals, because, minus LED, High Tide pieces, MUD pieces and Lands (no one cares about Lands but Lands players), that's really what we're talking about doing here: removing a combo archetype entirely, removing the least fun to play against deck in the format and a bunch of pieces of ineffectual decks. It honestly isn't going to be the wonderland that you think it would be. It'd be a mess and probably run by Miracles which loses next to nothing in the transition. Rather than playing a bastardized version of a great format, how about you buy into Legacy like everyone else who plays it or push for something new that isn't a fucked up version of a well-functioning format.
February 24, 2016 7:33 p.m.
alanwescoat says... #16
fluffybunnypants, I will grant that my Constructicon Legacy deck only went against Miracles once, but beat it 2-0 when Miracles seems to be functioning perfectly (though probably not God draws). I think we will wind up seeing some fabulous decksmithing if UNRESERVED catches on (with a nod to TheAnnihilator: Yes, I am eccentric). The territory is largely unexplored. It will likely be fun to explore for a whole lot of people.
If anyone thinks Legacy sucks, they are unlikely to even be reading this thread. Legacy is awesome, which is why so many people want to play. As for Legacy players being elitist, the fierce resistance to a similar idea which could have a much broader base of players does make it seem that way sometimes, at least in the case of some respondents.
Would UNRESERVED be a better form of the game than Legacy? Absolutely not, but if a whole lot of people who cannot effectively play Legacy in their local metas are enabled by the fact that the Reserved List cards are not present, it could still be great fun, more fun in my thinking than Modern, with ample room for exploration and decksmithing. It would be great fun simply because of the potential for a broad player base. More players means more play, and I definitely love to play M.T.G.
I hear people say "Stick to Modern". Why? I love Modern. It is a great format. I have other cards, too. Why not play them? I play Standard a little when I can afford to build a reasonable rogue deck. I play Modern. I play a little Legacy. Once in a while, I even decide I will play E.D.H., though I am not a fan of long, epic games and waiting ten minutes between turns. I also need to get around to building a Tiny Leaders deck should the format take off where I live. Unfortunately, absolutely nobody around me wants to play Pauper (though they want to play Papuer E.D.H.). I also enjoy Block Pauper Highlander because it is a fantastically cheap format where you can just give away full playsets to newer players, and everyone gets an affordable even card pool.
More formats can lead to more play. More play means that players get more value form their cards. There is nothing wrong with that!
Happy gaming!
February 25, 2016 9:25 a.m.
Epochalyptik says... #17
There is something wrong with pushing a format that doesn't merit support. Yet again, you're dodging the questions about why such a format is actually necessary (other than "because [insert name] wants to play Legacy without paying").
Because your proposal directly affects a common market and a common player base, you need to do an actual assessment of the impact on those things before people will generally feel comfortable getting on board.
How can it be said that Legacy Lite (again, all-capping "unreserved" makes you look like you're just pushing your pet idea as some reality or eventuality) is more accessible than Legacy? Sure, the staples can be reprinted, but look what happened to the economy when Modern was announced. Look what happens to staples whenever they put up results. You can't just say "we'll reprint everything" and then bury your head in the sand before people can explain to you why that's not necessarily a practical solution in all cases.
Criticism is not elitism. And if you don't answer the criticism, you shouldn't expect to be taken seriously.
February 25, 2016 9:37 a.m.
alanwescoat says... #18
Epochalyptik, what will merit such a format if people want to play it. I am game. I am interested. Some other people seem to be interested. There! It is that simple. Do you want to try a new M.T.G. format? It is just "yes" or "no". If people try it and like it, it is likely to catch on.
There is no way to establish merit before people even try it. That is nonsense. Where I come from, we call that "putting the cart before the horse". It needs to be tried to see if it will work. I think I am pretty likely to enjoy it. Others may as well.
You seem to be deeply concerned with the economics. I am interested in playing cards. That is why I am here. I love to play cards. I especially love to play M.T.G. If money is all that you love, I hope that you find ways to obtain it.
I do recognize an economic factor here. Eternal Masters is going to be released. Without reprints of Reserved List cards, most of the cards are going to have virtually NO monetary value or utility, unless a way is devised to make them useful. A new format where most of the cards one stands to crack from an overpriced pack of Eternal Masters means greater value for the purchase. That is pretty obvious and clear I think, unless, of course, Wizards decides to make the whole set jank, supported by nothing but the possibility of getting Force of Will or Wasteland. If Wizards is going to reprint a bunch of old cards, giving those cards added utility is going to be great.
February 25, 2016 9:53 a.m.
TheAnnihilator says... #19
@ Epochalyptik Since alanwescoat Doesn't really seem to know how to respond to the whole demand-for-the-format thing, I will try my best:
Legacy is flawed in a major way -- the reserve list. I don't think any magic player would dispute that the reserve list was and is a mistake (of course, I could be wrong, but that's what I've observed). As you mention that the entrance of a new format would change the market in a significant way, the reserve list does the same for Legacy.
Reprints, even on a set-per-year scale, are needed to support an eternal format to prevent it from becoming inaccessible -- the fact that players clamor for certain cards to be reprinted, usually those cards that have been bought out or shot up in price, shows that the market for those cards is becoming less accessible (regardless of who might own the majority of the cards -- vendors holding large stocks of cards to gouge prices makes those cards less accessible), and there is a limit to how long it can go on before people decide to just not participate anymore.
This is where it ties in to Legacy. As kyuuri117 said, suppose a person could save up for 2 weeks to buy a Trop (bad assumption, since not everyone has the same amount of disposable income, but it doesn't matter for the example). Will that be true in a year? Two years? A decade? WotC intends to maintain MTG for another ~40 years, and certainly the prices of the reserved cards will not be stable the whole time -- it will gradually increase as the supply decreases (damage, hoarders, etc.) and demand increases (new players join the format). However, WotC's default "safety valve" to deflate prices -- reprinting -- is not a possibility due to the reserve list. This wouldn't be a huge issue if the cards on the reserve list were unimportant, but many of those cards are absolutely central to the format and decks (ABUR duals and all of the cards from decks that people have complained wouldn't exist in "Unreserved"). There is currently no know way to deal with the rising card prices without banning stuff, hosing the decks that people love just to drop their prices (killing them to keep them alive just doesn't make any sense), or just breaking the reserve list (which WotC has said numerous times that it will not do). Maybe the format is accessible now, but it will eventually will become the opposite.
That is why there is demand for a new "Legacy Lite" format: the argument commonly given to players who want to join a format like Legacy -- "Just buy into Legacy, it's not that inaccessible." -- can only hold for so long. Eventually it will not be accessible (if it isn't already), despite how much people say you should just save up for weeks and build a deck over a year or years. If so many people are unwilling to buy into Legacy now, how can that possible change for the better a year from now, when there is basically 0 change to the reserve list?
As to why "Unreserved" specifically should be the answer, it's the literal closest thing you can get to Legacy while removing the main issue holding Legacy's development back (as proven above, the reserve list does hold Legacy back, even if it seems to be going strong now) -- Unreserved is literally just like Legacy except that it doesn't contain any cards on the reserve list. This fix is enough to maintain the format in a more effective way than Legacy can ever be managed (via reprints). Will reprinting stuff be the perfect fix? No. But it will be as effective as it can be without hosing decks and banning cards.
February 25, 2016 11:24 a.m.
TheAnnihilator says... #20
Edit: That last sentence should say: "But it will be as effective as it can be."
Heh, of course creating a format without the Reserved list will hose decks and ban cards. facepalm
February 25, 2016 11:35 a.m.
Epochalyptik says... #21
@alanwescoat: Saying people will play it is insufficient. That's akin to saying "People will shop, so let's built a Walmart supercenter" without considering the conditions and width of adjoining roads, the availability of a workforce, or the supply chain logistics. what you have is the impetus for your idea, not the justification for it.
And your selective disregard for economics is disappointing. Ostensibly, one of the "justifications" for your pet project is to make formats with older cards more accessible (else why bother harping on the supply issues caused by the RL policy?). This means that you must consider the economic impact, lest you create (taking liberties with your power as an individual) a new format where all the staples will just spike as they always do.
If the entirety of your agenda is to just say "UNRESERVED" as many times as possible in the hopes of her heating buyin, at least be forthright about it. The rest of us are here to have a productive conversation.
@TheAnnihilator: Thank you for your argument.
I agree that a Legacy Lite format is inherently more sustainable by virtue of not being bound by a hard reprint ban on certain staples. That much is fairly immutable
What I disagree with is the idea that the format would be sufficiently more accessible.
Consider the way the market explodes when a new format is implemented. Legacy Lite is in a poor position right now because Legacy is still moderately accessible (subjective, but it's not exponentially harder to break into Legacy than, say, Modern at this point). Creating a new format will spur market changes proportional to format buyin, and it will create economic problems with many non-RL Legacy staples as well as some Modern staples. You risk creating the same economic issue that Legacy currently poses, but worsened by price spiking. While reprints can bring general barrier to entry down, you still can't aggressively reprint things until the barrier is climbable for all; doing so produces the exact divestment that created the RL in the first place. WOTC has a cautious reprint policy, not an aggressive one. Modern Masters is a prime example of that.
Further, you'd need to assure us that there actually is buyin. How many people are really clamping for something halfway between Modern and Legacy just for access to a couple of additional sets? In more realistic terms, what's the major draw of such a format other than the novelty of a handful more possible staples? Is it justifiable in the context of the popularity of the two adjoining formats?
And if the concern is that Legacy will eventually become inaccessible rather than just difficult to access, how far into the future are we talking? Is it far enough that Modern would theoretically be the next most inaccessible format one could justify? Many people are already rabidly clamping for a Modern Lite starting with the M15 border change. f long-term sustainability is the concern, it would make sense on some level to venture toward more recent sets because older non-rotating formats will continue to expand anyway. Of course, eternal vs. non-rotating is the obvious counterpoint, but are there other possibilities to create eternal formats?
February 25, 2016 12:39 p.m.
TheAnnihilator says... #22
@ Epochalyptik Creating a new format (especially one that catches on in the competitive scene) is certainly bound to stir the market. Cards will spike, you're right. However, the market will settle as long as WotC tries to reprint what's necessary (although they haven't necessarily been maintaining Modern very well to this point, tbh). It's an unavoidable fate that cards will spike, even without the presence of Unreserved (seriously, we need a new name xD). The new format will certainly stir the market more than usual, but it's not within our control anyways -- prices rising doesn't represent a failed idea, it just tosses the ball into WotC's court. Perhaps they simply reprint more aggressively in response the the community -- after all, we would be partially fixing they created. Maybe they do something extreme, like making Legacy an unsanctioned format to stop it from affecting secondary prices (I'm not saying they should or will do that, but it's a possibility). All I can say is that if they don't handle it properly, the new format could run the risk of flopping. None of this means we shouldn't get it started though, much the opposite: we've got the ball, whether or not we serve it is up to is. At least after the format is created (and hopefully catches on), Wizards has the option to reprint the required cards into oblivion to support it, unlike they could ever do with Legacy.
The hype surrounding Eternal Masters and the "Unreserved" discussion popping up throughout forums and the internet are somewhat reassuring in the potential for buyin to the format -- especially comments like "Sweet, maybe I can get some Forces now." and the like. Even some Legacy players abhor the Reserved List, and may make the change. It's a shame, because I really like decks like Storm and MUD (even coming from a Modern-exclusive player, the decks intrigue me), but there is honestly a ton of potential in working around the Reserved List -- enough that making sacrifices may be necessary. That alone may be enough to drive players to the format (even if it means they leave other formats).
Venturing towards more recent sets as time goes on is a noble idea, and a very wise observation on your part -- new sets' cards are going to be far more accessible than older ones. I don't mean to say "Reprints. Reprints. Reprints!", but remember that by reprinting old cards, you are essentially tying older formats closer to newer sets. If a yearly reprint set like Eternal Masters is successful, then Eternal formats like Unreserved and Modern are still being held up by newer sets, and therefore fit your idea quite nicely.
"But Homelands!" you might be tempted to say. "All-reprints sets don't function!" Well, to some extent that's true, but the true downfall of an all-reprint set is if the cards that are reprinted cause a massive loss in value all at once. We now know from sets like the Masters sets that cards that are reprinted for demand concerns often just rise back up in price, even if they fall in price directly after their reprinting. Reprinting cards that aren't in high enough demand (and therefore don't particularly need a reprint) is what causes reprint sets to flop; but continually reprinting cards that will maintain a reasonable long-term value despite multiple printings (ie, format staples) shouldn't harm anyone.
February 25, 2016 2:10 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #23
Economic change isn't a sign of failure, no, but if the format is being pushed as a way to lower the barrier to entry to eternal play, then you need to have a thought-out solution for the economic fluctuations. As I said, "reprint until it isn't expensive" is not a real solution. Reprinting that many cards to that extent will take time. Otherwise, you end up divesting players. It's this point specifically that nobody on the "for" side seems to grasp. The reason the RL was started in the first place was that WOTC ended up reprinting a ton of cards in a widely-distributed set, causing collection values to fall sharply. Proposing that we start a new format and "reprint the required cards into oblivion" is ignorant of the game's history and basic economic structure. That's precisely what you cannot do if your goal is to get away from the mistakes of the RL.
Further, new formats always cause rises in the prices of staple cards by virtue of supply and demand. Therefore, proposing a new format as a way to promise lower entry cost is something of a fool's move.
Making Legacy an unsanctioned format means that we're effectively proposing a replacement for or change to Legacy, which is exactly what I thought everyone was claiming this wasn't about.
Also, Modern isn't an eternal format.
February 25, 2016 6 p.m.
TheAnnihilator says... #24
@ Epochalyptik To clarify, I wasn't suggesting that Legacy should become an unsanctioned format. It was an example of one of many possible solutions from Wizards' end -- and I even said it would be an "extreme" move on their part while pointing out in parenthesis that I don't suggest that they should actually do that. I do not suggest that as the preferred solution in any way.
Again, the quote "reprinting cards into oblivion" was another intentional exaggeration to show the extent to which Wizards could go to fix the problem -- I never intended to suggest it was the preferred solution. It was to show that Wizards has a lot of power over what would happen after the format was created.
About the reprinting issue, the only two ways to change the market price of a good are to effect supply or demand. One way to decrease price is to cut demand, meaning banning cards so nobody wants them or never supporting any format that includes them so that nobody wants them. Since the cutting out demand is obviously against the point of a new format, the only remaining solution is to increase supply -- meaning reprints are the only way to affect the prices in a positive way. The argument is well-thought-out, but the only good solution is reprints (or making really good proxies, I guess). The same logic applies to Modern and Legacy too -- all non-rotating rely on reprints to manage themselves, which is why the Masters series exists, without reprints the prices would continually rise with no way to stop them from doing so. Since we already rely on reprints to maintain Modern and Legacy, I don't see why it would be so unacceptable to rely on reprints for Unreserved.
I'm proposing a more easily-managed and reliable format, not necessarily a more accessible one (at least, not in the short-run). It has the potential to be more accessible over time, but it's likely to be about the same through its beginning. However, it's intended to address future problems at its core, which is why I suggest it in the first place. In no way do I guarantee it will be less expensive than any current format.
February 25, 2016 8:51 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #25
I understand that reprints are the only legitimate option.
The "problem" is that they are not an instant or surefire solution. You can reprint cards in a limited capacity. It's been shown that this method has mixed results at best.
Consider Modern. When it was announced, anticipated or obvious staples spiked sharply. Modern Masters (the original one) caused some cards' prices to drop, but it also caused others to rise. Further, it's impossible to safely reprint certain cards at a high rate. The best WOTC can do is either print new staples, change the format's meta, or stick to a slow grind of reprints that very gradually increase supply.
This is why it's insufficient to argue that reprints are a viable way of maintaining a low barrier to entry in a new format. If you introduce a new format, card values will spike. It's a fundamental guarantee. Even though WOTC learns more with each Masters set, it will be unlikely that the new format will be calmed soon after being instated.
Given that the proposal for Legacy Lite is meant to be a proposal for a more accessible format than actual Legacy (this is at least the proposal made by alanwescoat), that initial spike and the inability to control it would be critically endangering, if not lethal, for the format's chances of success in that respect. Accessibility is closely intertwined with supply and demand economics, not just with the size of the supply alone.
As for ease of management, I'm still unconvinced that there's a need for an intermediate format between Modern and Legacy when the card pool and player base would be too similar to both. It seems like an attempt to find a goldilocks solution where one doesn't really need to exist right now. That's why I keep coming back to merit. If the community is actually clamoring for something like this, then try it. But I don't think that creating a half breed of formats is really the most viable long-term solution. You're just adding new formats in what we already acknowledge as a difficult sector to manage (larger eternal formats).
To be clear, I'm open to the idea that a Legacy Lite format might become sustainable and might be a necessary component to the game in some years' time. But the idea needs to be articulated better before it can realistically assume that position.
February 25, 2016 9:21 p.m.
TheAnnihilator says... #26
@ Epochalyptik I believe I understand where you're coming from. I'll try to summarize your position for completion's sake: you agree that a format like Unreserved is a good idea, and may be necessary in the future, but current prices and demand levels toward Legacy and it's cards haven't hit a breaking point yet. Thus, Unreserved remains largely unnecessary for the moment being, but may become a necessity in time to come.
Have I stated that correctly?
February 25, 2016 10:10 p.m.
alanwescoat says... #27
One thing to note is that UNRESERVED offers players a chance at a genuine Eternal format (unlike Modern, which is not an Eternal format), a format for which the cards are completely under the control of Wizards. They will have unlimited capacity to provide all of the cards for the format without being answerable to anyone but the consumers for them. They will not have to break any promises when printing the cards.
This does not mean that Wizards has to officially support the format. They do not. They can continue to support Vintage, Legacy, and Modern as they already do. This is just a player issue, and it is also up to the shops. Remember that each shop individually is entitled to define formats for F.N.M. Hence, UNRESERVED is something which can be tried without input from Wizards. No comment or input from Wizards is necessary for anything to be tested or started.
The players and the shops play an important role in the game. Here in Korea, Korean M.T.G. cards were gone for a long time. Starting with M12, Korean cards came back. I traveled across the country to Seoul to participate in a fairly large Korean Modern event, a non-sanctioned format in which the cards allowed were from M12 on up, meaning that every card in the format was accessible in Korean language. It was a good format. I had a good time competing. That format did not take off here because people really just wanted to play Standard and Modern, but it was worth trying. In this case, UNRESERVED can be a global format, one which players worldwide may choose to adopt fairly readily, which gives it a good chance of being enjoyable and well received.
TheAnnihilator says... #1
I just want to chime in and say that if people actually started this as a real thing -- especially if it ever became sanctioned format, I would at least try to get into No-Reserve Legacy.
It's less about "let me play this format that I can't afford" and more about "forget the reserve list, as those who care about magic's future want some kind of legacy-like format to actually survive". I don't even try to buy into Legacy because of the reserve list -- I could, given enough time, but the reserve list is just the actual worst.
February 23, 2016 1:59 p.m.