Thoughtseize vs Inquisition of Kozilek
Legacy forum
Posted on April 15, 2015, 7:31 p.m. by Lokotor
I'm looking at them and thinking; How many cards will I really encounter that inquisition is not going to hit? Is it worth 2-8 life?
What is your opinion?
I'm considering them for slots in a Stoneblade deck if that helps.
julianjmoss says... #3
A lot of stoneblades play both. That being said, all the cards above 3cmc are really good.
Natural order, force of will, emrakul? Grisleband, etc
April 15, 2015 7:41 p.m.
mathimus55 says... #4
The Thoughtseize is usually the main board card since it hits a broader range of threats. If hand disruption is that important to your strategy then Inquisition of Kozilek can come in, but I think I've seen just as many legacy decks running Duress as they do inquisition since it's such a spell heavy format. Legacy is more about landing a threat or 2 and protecting it or protecting your combo. The non creature clause isn't as big in legacy as modern.
April 15, 2015 7:43 p.m.
EndStepTop says... #5
Run the seizes, taking AD nause from Storm, NO from elves Sneak attack from SNS and all big targets. taking Batterskull in the mirror/against DnT is also insane. To answer your second question it IS worth every life.
April 15, 2015 7:45 p.m.
yes, there are things in legacy that are higher than 3 cmc...Jace, the Mind Sculptor, Force of Will, Dig Through Time, Batterskull, Terminus, Damnation, Supreme Verdict, Omniscience, Ad Nauseam, Tendrils of Agony, Empty the Warrens from what I can think off the top of my head.
Usually hand disruption that gets used in legacy is Thoughtseize, Cabal Therapy, Hymn to Tourach, Liliana of the Veil
April 15, 2015 7:45 p.m.
Same as chief here. Also hits Jace, the Mind Sculptor, Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, Dig Through Time, Batterskull, Supreme Verdict, Terminus, Tasigur, the Golden Fang, off the top of my head.
April 15, 2015 7:45 p.m.
Force of Will, Dig Through Time, Jace, the Mind Sculptor, Batterskull, Terminus, Entreat the Angels, Tasigur, the Golden Fang, Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, Omniscience
April 15, 2015 7:45 p.m.
Just saying that Entreat the Angels and Terminus are almost never in the hand. That's the beauty of Brainstorm and Sensei's Divining Top.
Anyway, maindeck Thoughtseize and sideboard either Duress, Cabal Therapy, or some mixture of both.
April 15, 2015 8 p.m.
Entreat the Angels is CMC 3 but that is beside the point.
I am planning to go for the Thoughtseize personally.
What ratios of disruption / counter magic would you want for the meta at this point?
I currently have: 3xThoughtseize 2xVendilion Clique 4xForce of Will 2xSpell Pierce
At this point I am splashing black solely for Thoughtseize, so i'm thinking I'll just run one Bayou which will let me play them and be able to side Krosan Grip
April 15, 2015 8:11 p.m.
Daze > Spell Pierce imo. I have played my fair share of deathblade for legacy. do you have a list up?
April 15, 2015 8:24 p.m.
And, by the way, what colors is the deck in? If you're splashing black it's probably not Esper and the way you mentioned Krosan Grip leads me to believe it's not Bant either. Azorius?
April 15, 2015 8:31 p.m.
I was originally building UW stoneblade with one Tropical Island so I could board in Krosan Grip and then felt like it would probably be better to just cut Spell Snare and add Thoughtseize. but rather than adding Underground Sea I figure it's just as easy to have my single black source be a Bayou
April 15, 2015 8:36 p.m.
Actually sounds like 4 color...if your actually building on paper...good luck with the card costs. Its shit expensive
April 15, 2015 8:36 p.m.
Blizzicane says... #18
Ignore my post, I somehow missed the whole talk about Thoughtseize. XP
April 15, 2015 8:38 p.m.
EndStepTop says... #19
Lokotor I built a stoneblade deck, it started as Deathblade(stone blade running green for deathrites). I have a list on my profile (in my decks folder) why are you forcing the krosan grip? Stone blade doesn't really want it.
April 15, 2015 9:07 p.m.
Mostly I was going to side K-Grip for the mirror, but there are other uses for artifact/enchantment removal. I figure its better than running disenchant because of split second, though I suppose it's probably ok to just use disenchant or perhaps i could side more disruption or counters. :/ it's still a WIP for now and the sideboard is fairly loose still.
Link to UW Stoneblade
Link to UWb Esperblade
April 15, 2015 10:22 p.m.
EndStepTop says... #21
Sandbag your thoughtseizes for batterskull, you don't want to splash for K grip. You can it's your deck,but esper offers the cards to deal with what you need. If you do splash green look up esper death blade. Its an esper midrange/control deck splashing green for full access to DRS.
April 15, 2015 10:26 p.m.
aeonstoremyliver says... #22
IoK still hits a lot, but Thoughtseize, Duress, and Cabal Therapy hits more. Against redunk decks like TES/ANT, Show and Tell and it's variants, et al, targeted discard is important.
To touch on life, it matters far less in Legacy; only one that counts is the last one.
April 15, 2015 10:41 p.m.
I had wanted to go UW originally (Partially for cost) but then I just kinda felt like Thoughtseize would do me more good than Spell Snare. Krosan Grip was originally considered as It just seems like the best artifact/enchantment removal, but I think it will likely be replaced with Disenchant (So I can use it on BloodMoon etc,) though it may also become Lingering Souls or even Blue Elemental Blast
April 15, 2015 10:45 p.m.
I'm also somewhat on the fence about if I should run the Wastelands or not. If I cut them they will probably become 1xUnderground Sea and 1xKarakas
April 15, 2015 10:48 p.m.
EndStepTop says... #25
I liked souls more when I played the deck, they're bonkers in Grundy games carry jitte like a pro. You already run spell pierce/fow to stop a blowout by blood moon. Blue ale blast is pretty meh unless rug delved or red splashing miracles is common for you. I never felt disenchant warranted a slot personally but it's a good option.
April 15, 2015 10:50 p.m.
EndStepTop says... #26
Keep karakas, it's so versatile Thalia, Grislebud, Emerkul, Elesh nor And Iona are all cards that lose hard to Karakas. The underground sea is great, unless for budget reaso a run it. I'd drop academy ruins and a plains of anything. I also noticed the mainboard sword of feast and famine, that could probably get pushed to the SB, I found the swords to be real clunky.
April 15, 2015 10:57 p.m.
You need SoFI if you're running a sword. Much better for the format since it kills most problematic creatures and gives you card advantage, which is obviously never a bad thing.
April 15, 2015 11:02 p.m.
EndStepTop says... #28
More importantly fire and ice gets past opposing true name nemesis. To kill creatures, I'd just grab Jitte, you don't need 3 equipment MB really.
April 15, 2015 11:05 p.m.
julianjmoss says... #29
You need at least one Karakas in the 75 in my opinion
April 15, 2015 11:05 p.m.
my personal feelings on it so far is that the Wastelands feel like they are not always going to be pushing me ahead as much as they probably should. if i were going deathblade I would run them as i could always exile them for mana and still be ahead, but as is, i think it's probably better to go for the second Underground Sea / Karakas path. Though I'm not terribly up and up on the current meta and this could be wrong.
I like running enough basics in the deck so that i have the ability to still play cards if i'm up against some kind of land hate and i don't actually need to replace them with anything at the moment i don't feel as i'm barely in 3 colors.
the more i think about it the more i feel like a 2 of Lingering Souls would probably be better than the Krosan Grip in the board. though again, i'm not sure if there is any great need for Disenchant in the meta.
since i'm running with True-Name Nemesis in the deck i think the Sword of Feast and Famine will be useful as a main board. If i need to speed things up (ex vs delver) Sword of Fire and Ice can come in for extra removal and draw. At the moment im not in need of a cut either.
Academy Ruins gives me some recursion but also combos with Engineered Explosives as a replacement for Supreme Verdict considering i can hit 3 it should take care of most things.
this is my thought process on the deck so far. let me know what your opinions are
April 15, 2015 11:27 p.m.
EndStepTop says... #31
It's all sound logic. Death blade plays wasteland to remove gaea's cradles and what have you, with the bonus of being able to make great tempo plays with it and drs. If you stay stoneblade, Karakas, underground sea and basics are fine. The sword I can see if you want it, I could never find space. I still recommend sideboarding it and keeping disruption in MB, but that's more personal preference. I didn't run EE so I didn't look into ruins but there's nothing wrong with that plan. Good luck with the deck !
April 16, 2015 8:21 a.m.
thanks, I'm going to keep poking around for what feels like a good set up for some time i think, but for now i'll probably playtest this for a while
ChiefBell says... #2
I know nothing about legacy but Force of Will, and Sneak Attack come to mind.
April 15, 2015 7:37 p.m.