Using Sneak and Tell, what do Sneak and Tell decks use to deal with Karakas?
Legacy forum
Posted on July 9, 2013, 3:51 p.m. by 203995014
Are there any other cards that hose Sneak and Tell?
Thanks but I'm actually the one using Sneak and Tell, not the one boarding against it.
July 9, 2013 4:13 p.m.
Smith_and_Tonic says... #4
haha oops... Well Karakas is only good if you Show and Tell into Emrakul, the Aeons Torn . If you Show and Tell in Omniscience you can cast Emrakul, the Aeons Torn and take an extra turn. It all depends on how you try and win.
July 9, 2013 4:17 p.m.
If they leave it untapped though can't they just Karakas Griselbrand or Emrakul, the Aeons Torn as soon as it comes in? I don't think it's possible to sneak them in during the declare attackers phase and declare them as attackers before they can respond. Any other time I could do it my opponent could Karakas it.
Is having Griselbrand and Emrakul, the Aeons Torn sneaked out at the same time the only way around it? I could be wrong but am I right in thinking that because unlike main phases, the start combat phases you can only use instants and stuff and put stuff on the stack once and when the stack becomes empty you can't really cast spells and shit anymore, that if I sneak out Emrakul, the Aeons Torn during the start combat phases he'll survive to attack during the declare attackers and hopefully annihilate the Karakas ?
I'm considering taking out Ancient Tomb for Wasteland but I found the Wasteland slowed the deck significantly.
July 9, 2013 4:27 p.m.
No, it doesn't work like that, once he resolves, your opponent gets priority at some point before moving on and can use Karakas to return him to your hand. Plus what you're hoping for is luck, same if you ignored Karakas because it's a one of in most decks. Wasteland is important for that reason. Stifle might be an option, but I haven't seen many decks run this, personally I like it over Misdirection . Especially against esper deathblade.... which loves activated abilities.
July 9, 2013 4:40 p.m.
According to this, this is what I think would happen: http://i.imgur.com/llXMX.jpg
Assuming there are no triggered abilities, I get priority in the start combat phase so I use Sneak Attack 's ability. My opponent CAN try to use Karakas in response but (assuming no one did anything after), the Karakas ability would resolve and it probably doesn't have any legal targets. Then Sneak Attack 's ability resolves, and I get the Emrakul, the Aeons Torn . Emrakul has haste.
Then comes the Declare Attackers phase. I'm the active player, so I declare Emrakul, the Aeons Torn as an attacker. The annihilator trigger goes on the stack. Then I get priority which I'm probably not going to do anything. Even if my opponent used Karakas 's ability, the annihilator is already on the stack. So assuming I didn't do anything and my opponent didn't respond to the annihilator, even though Emrakul, the Aeons Torn went back to my hand, the annihilator will still resolve and they will have to sacrifice 6 permanents. It is unlikely that they will have more than 6 and that includes the Karakas . That leaves me likely to attack with another emrakul next turn and actually deal the damage this time.
What am I missing?
July 9, 2013 5:07 p.m.
But, opponent b, does get priority after you do things in the declare combat phase. This can mean letting sneak attack's ability resolve, then responding after that, not in direct response to that.
Please check the example out here
This gist is: you get emrakul, then defending player has to get priority to use Karakas before the end of declare combat phase, after sneak attack's ability resolves. Of course you get first priority as the Active player, but your opponent can do things he wants that is not in response, after you've done your things.
This is all before declare attackers stage.
July 9, 2013 5:22 p.m.
I should probably explain this as APNAP and passing priority. Active Player gets first priority then the Non-Active Player gets priority when the AP passes it. When both players pass on it with an empty stack, then the phase moves on. So when you, as the active player, passes priority with an empty stack to the non-active player, he can put things on the stack to resolve normally. Then pass priority back. So now you've both done your things, you both pass priority on the empty stack, boom, declare attackers phase begins.
July 9, 2013 5:47 p.m.
Before the new legendary rules Sneak and Show has used their own Karakas to combat opposing Karakas postboard. Now, they will have to run Wasteland or a similar effect postboard.
July 9, 2013 6:51 p.m.
Bobgalarneau says... #11
Mage's Guile or Ranger's Guile or any instant that would make your creature an illegal target. But i don't play legacy so i'm not sure if you'll have the mana open or if it would slow you down too much to be usefull
July 10, 2013 3:38 p.m.
Smith_and_Tonic says... #12
Those suggestions don't work if Emrakul, the Aeons Torn is sneaked in since he can't be the target of colored spells. It would work for Griselbrand though.
July 10, 2013 3:43 p.m.
Bobgalarneau says... #13
There are options that does not target or that would be artifact.
July 10, 2013 3:48 p.m.
Bobgalarneau says... #14
Glaring Spotlight , Tortoise Formation Simic Charm . Again, not sure you would have the mana...
July 10, 2013 3:51 p.m.
Seems you're right.
Yup, clearly you don't play legacy.
I've heard of people using Not of This World earlier today. For now I'm using Stifle .
July 10, 2013 5:20 p.m.
People were bringing Karakas out of the sideboard to fight other copies. Since that isn't possible anymore after today, wouldn't Wasteland basically just be a drop-in replacement in the sideboard? It's not perfect since it's susceptible to Stifle , but barring tricks like that, it seems to work exactly the same in a non-white deck.
Still, if I was playing Sneak and Show I'd have already been thinking about switching to Omnitell, and this is just another very good reason to do so.
July 12, 2013 11:21 a.m.
There's little to no space for Wasteland both sideboard and mainboard. What I did was take out Misdirection for Stifle because you might as well just counter it instead of forcing them to do their own stuff because it's not really going to be different when you sneak in Emrakul, the Aeons Torn or get shit tons of card advantage from Griselbrand and counter all their stuff.
I actually used to use omni-tell but I found it to be rather inconsistent although it's a very powerful deck.
Someone suggested that since I was newer to legacy, I should try Sneak and Tell before I try omni-tell and once I get an idea on how I should play strategically, I could go back to using omni-tell because omni-tell is very powerful once you learn to use it.
And that's why I use Sneak and Tell.
Sneak and Tell is a great "intro deck" for legacy, minus the being underpowered as shit part. I've gotten a lot better since.
July 12, 2013 12:27 p.m.
To elaborate, Stifle is almost never going to be dead mainboard, which Misdirection had a problem with. Stifle can prevent fetchlands from fetching lands which can give you a significant advantage and is kind of like a Time Walk .
Good bye Misdirection . No one could ever misdirect Hymn to Tourach and Thoughtseize better than you.
Smith_and_Tonic says... #2
Ensnaring Bridge will keep those huge creatures at bay.
July 9, 2013 4:09 p.m.