Gideon's background continuity flaw?
Lore forum
Posted on May 28, 2015, 10:25 a.m. by RussischerZar
Gideon is one of the Planeswalkers that will be featured in Magic: Origins and supposedly his home plane is Theros.
Now, today I remembered the intro sequence to Duels of the Planeswalkers 2012, where Gideon gives a small speech...
"My name is Gideon. And I'm about to die. I was born of a world long since destroyed. Some say I played a hand in its destruction. Less charitable voices say I was the sole cause of its demise. I cared little at the time because I was blinded by my own self-righteous fury. But then a reckoning came upon me. I found others who could travel between worlds whose beliefs conflicted with my own. I was humbled by their power and tempered by their convictions. I resolved to learn from my opponents. I would do better. Be better. And fight the very kind of tyrant I had become. For years I stood alone in countless battles, I've won every time. Until now. I've given my all but it wasn't enough. But I have a plan. I've done the one thing my opponent can never do. I've made allies out of enemies."
(Video / source of transcript)
Since we've very recently visited Theros, which seems totally fine and not at all destroyed, do you think there's been some continuity error made by Wizards?
One of the above's video comments says "Confirmed non-canon by Doug Beyer". Anyone has a link to that?
Also, that video is totally badass.
JakeHarlow says... #3
If it is in fact non-canon then there's your answer.
However, Gideon might have been referring to a plane he adopted as his home sometime after he began to planeswalk. We know, according to the card Desperate Stand, that he was known in Akros as Kytheon Iora (a Graecized stylization of Gideon's name). There's also some Theran hints about the whip discipline he might have learned there. Look at Fabled Hero.
A third possibility is that Gideon might be from that Atlantis-like city that was destroyed by Heliod, as seen on the FTV Annihilation printing of Wrath of God. While this technically isn't a total destruction of a world, it could serve to unite the Duels 2012 intro with Gideon's (confirmed?) Theros origins.
I do believe that the story of Duels 2012 is non-canon, though. The story seems to revolve around the Archenemy portion of the game, and climaxes with a battle against Nicol Bolas as the archenemy. Gideon refers to his gathering of allies in the intro video, which corresponds to this fight. But I do not seem to remember Bolas, as part of Magic's storyline, battling a coalition of Tezzeret, Elspeth, Gideon, and Ajani (which is depicted in some loading screen art). So the game is probably non-canon for sure. Along with Duels 2013. I don't think the series started to involve actual canon stories until 2014 and 2015.
May 28, 2015 11:37 a.m.
Creative could have merged the two stories. Just say that Gideon didn't literally mean "world" as in a plane, but more of a "world as he knew it" kind of way.
Gideon is White-aligned which means he has a strong sense of community, so his "world" could have been the polis where he grew up. Just say that Gideon somehow caused the destruction of his polis and the people that lived there.
It's flimsy considering his use of "world" to imply another plane later in the monologue, but at least it prevents a complete retcon.
May 28, 2015 11:57 a.m.
VampireArmy says... #5
I'm annoyed that they kind of cover up the misstep by declaring it non cannon. They've done that before. To me it's just lazy story telling
May 28, 2015 12:59 p.m.
JakeHarlow says... #6
I agree. I think the lore is probably under different leadership now, though, and there seems to be an effort to tighten things up in that department. Look at the revamped Uncharted Realms stuff. I think they're trying harder than before. However, like the current example, they do have some past mistakes and inconsistencies to account for. I think moving forward, though, we are likely to less and less of these problems.
May 28, 2015 1:06 p.m.
If you read that first link, you'll see that Creative wasn't involved in the making of that video so it was never cannon really.
May 28, 2015 1:38 p.m.
RussischerZar says... #9
Oh well. Still a cool video.
I'll go with the "world =/= plane" explanation and watch the video again. :P
May 28, 2015 6:54 p.m.
Named_Tawyny says... #10
JakeHarlow, just to clarify, Kytheon Iora is not a Graecized stylization of Gideon's name. It's his original name.
Gideon Jura is an Anglicised stylization of Kytheon's name.
May 28, 2015 7:02 p.m.
one of the mana source/tolarianCC's podcast they go over it. there was some kind miscommunication with the people making duels and the people at wizards and wizards did not approve of the story line duels gave gideon
May 28, 2015 7:04 p.m.
@Named_Tawyny I highly doubt that they came up with "Kytheon Iora" first. Gideon was his original card name, and now that they want a Theros backstory, they've created an appropriate "birth name."
@swkelly89 That's how I understood it. The Duels team was not linked to the keepers of the canon.
May 29, 2015 7:27 a.m.
Named_Tawyny says... #13
Korombos, it doesn't matter which they came up with first - we're talking lore, not process.
Gideon/Kytheon is a native Therosian; he was born with a Therosian name. It only became Gideon once he started planeswalking, and needed to blend in more.
May 29, 2015 7:38 a.m.
JakeHarlow says... #14
@ Named_Tawyny:
I see what you're saying, but I was coming from a design perspective, not lore. Lore-wise, yes, Gideon Jura is a Latinized (not necessarily Anglicized, since it would be rendered this way in any Romance or Germanic language) spelling of "Kytheon Iora."
I was talking about the designers' perspective, though, since we're talking about canonicity here. From the lore perspective, Gideon's name is definitely adapted from his Greek-inspired Theran name, and you're correct about his reasons for adopting a Latinized stylization.
Another caveat: The canonical demonym for a being from Theros is "Theran" as seen in published lore. "Therosian" is not correct.
I have multiple degrees in Classical Languages. :) I have many years of Latin (both Classical and Medieval) and Greek (Classical, Middle, Modern) under my belt. Also a few modern languages.
May 29, 2015 10:43 p.m.
Named_Tawyny says... #15
@JakeHarlowFair enough, that makes sense. =) I just assumed you were talking lore, since this is a lore forum. :p
And thanks for the correction on Theran vs Therosian - I should have remembered that.
Latin is something I'm fairly handy with although Greek, I'm afraid, is largely all Greek to me. ;)
May 31, 2015 1:26 a.m.
JakeHarlow says... #16
All good, Named_Tawyny! If you like Latin and classical languages, you'll find that Ancient Greek will be fun and easy to learn. Especially since you say you've got solid facility with Latin. It's a fun challenge and opens up many interesting works to read in their original languages. Plato is fun, but the plays by Aeschylus, Euripides, and others are also fun. Histories by Herodotus and Plutarch are great fun, and Aristotle (the tutor of Alexander) still has relevant wisdom to share.
meecht says... #2
http://dougbeyermtg.tumblr.com/post/113348232739/doug-didnt-the-duels-2012-intro-cinematic-say
May 28, 2015 10:33 a.m.