Most Powerful Creature Type
Lore forum
Posted on June 26, 2019, 10:33 a.m. by MLGSavageBoy
So What is the most powerful creature type, what is the most powerful creature from that type? Excluding Planeswalkers. I would say that Dragons or Eldrazi are most powerful types, I'm swaying towards Dragons but I'm better versed in dragons than Eldrazi. I also have a few more questions and would like to be better versed in the lore, if you would like to discuss MTG Lore you can contact me on PS4 at MLGBossSavage
I would say Eldrazi are probably the single most powerful individual creatures. To start, all the Eldrazi we see are merely the physical manifestations of a greater entity existing in the blind eternity. All the non-legendary Eldrazi we have seen are not actually their own creatures--they're all extensions of the Titan that spawned them. So, while we have seen a large number of Eldrazi cards, we have only seen three actual Eldrazi.
It is possible to kill on of the Titans--two have been killed by channeling the entirety of Zendikar's leylines (and sloppy writing).
Ugin, one of the more powerful dragons, was shown to be weaker than the Eldrazi titans. Throughout the lore, we see dragons get killed by humans or other creatures.
Avatars also deserve a mention as one of the stronger types in the game, since they can represent the Worldsoul of a plane.
June 26, 2019 12:15 p.m.
I am in total agreement with cireretals in that the big three are the eldrazi, slivers and the phyrexians.... the most powerful eldrazi would probably be last remaining titan Emrakul, the Aeons Torn , the most powerful sliver would be whoever is the Sliver Queen ... the phyrexians are a bit tougher to tell who the "most powerful is... Yawgmoth is a big deal for sure.
June 26, 2019 12:18 p.m.
Phyrexian isn't a creature type however. So I think we have to narrow it down to Eldrazi, slivers, and maybe Avatars. I find it kind of amusing that gods aren't anywhere near this list. I'd also consider putting Incarnation in there, not in terms of combat power but in terms of potential. Avatars are forms powerful entities take to interact with lesser entities, eg. Serra Avatar . Incarnations are the embodiments of concepts, eg. Hostility . If you think it's hard to destroy a dragon or eldrazi, try to destroy an idea
June 26, 2019 2:24 p.m.
CastleSiege says... #7
Obviously Slivers that are corrupted into Eldrazi Slivers by Emrakul's influence and then infected with Phyrexian oil.
June 26, 2019 4:09 p.m.
CastleSiege wins. That'll be the new Un-set, Phyrexian Eldrazi Slivers vs Fusioned Planeswalkers Gods. You think Emrakul, the Sliver Queen of Yawgmoth is strong? I raise you with my Jakruphixza, Lord High Artificer Mind Sculptor.
June 26, 2019 5:01 p.m.
NicoFreakinBolas says... #9
Shapeshifter. They are all the types. Kidding!! Obviously Homunculus. They have the most powerful being in existence, the almighty Fblthp
June 26, 2019 6:57 p.m.
Rebels. So powerful that we get new Slivers, new Elves, new damn-near everything else. But Rebels? They were cut from a set explicitly about a rebellion, and Rosewater wants nothing to do with them or their mechanic ever again.
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June 26, 2019 11:08 p.m.
MLGSavageBoy says... #11
Well the reason I say Dragons is because think of all the powerful dragon "Gods" in MTG. Things like "The Ur Dragon" "O-Kagachi" The other five kamigawa block dragons "Guildpact Niv Mizzet" They aren't exactly fodder. Wurms (and take this with a grain of salt) are to some degree extensions of dragons, because they originate from elder dragons.
Other things that need to be mentioned are yes, the gods. You don't get the term "God" as a sub type if you are weak. But what about "Progenitus" or "Marit Lage" They are definitely not weak. And just out of curiosity, do hydras have any relation to dragons in the lore? They wouldn't be the only subtype related to dragons. (There is "Viashino, Drake, Wurm, that I know of, is there any more?) (P.S. I'm sorry I dont know how to put card links in posts
June 27, 2019 2:14 a.m.
Nerdytimesorwhatever says... #12
I think the Ouphes are the most powerful. I mean what other tribe is also an onomatopoeia
June 27, 2019 2:19 a.m.
The issue with that MLGSavageBoy is that they have other creature types. The Ur-Dragon is an avatar, because he represents the ideal dragon and is the progenitor of dragon-kind. O-Kagachi, Vengeful Kami is a spirit, because he's a kami. Anyone who has a better understanding of Shintoism, forgive me for probably screwing up my whole explanation of this, but basically kami are spirits of certain things, with a wide range of power levels. there are kami of things like candles in mtg, or things like the kami of the barrier that serparates the human world and spirit world. That's O-kagachi's role, and why he's so powerful. it has been mentioned in the past that before Theros, "avatar" and "spirit" were used to describe beings that we might call gods for fear of religious repercussion.
June 27, 2019 7:54 a.m.
cireretals says... #14
Well one on one I'm sure most of the dragons would kill most other beings. But if you look at say the Sliver Queen vs some of the aforementioned dragons. If you gave her enough time to create more and more slivers, they grow and learn. Then her and her legion battle one its bitsy little dragon, wouldn't be much of a fight. It depends on how much time the slivers have to learn, evolve, and eat.
June 27, 2019 8:32 a.m.
MLGSavageBoy says... #15
I get the point people are making with Slivers, because yes they are very powerful, but their power is very circumstantial. All of the arguments I've seen after asking this question numerous times for Slivers is, "They have potential". Which I'm not saying is false by any stretch of the imagination, but as a species as a whole, they don't do well in a situation like this. 1. Basically every time they've shown up they've just went extinct. 2. Lets say for a second that slivers weren't extinct, they need time to build up an army, assuming they have a queen to build said army after recently being extinct. Lets say for a second both of those qualifications were met. We would have to assume both sides had A, enough time to gather forces and B, had the means to possibly bring dead forces back from the dead. On a more real note XD, The Ur Dragon could honestly probably make dragons faster than the sliver queen could make slivers. I seriously want all of you who are reading this to go read the wiki page for The Ur Dragon. Now talking about dragons as a whole against slivers as a whole, there is a couple situations we can have for this.
Situation 1-Somehow someway, all dragons and all slivers end up in the same place at the same time and fight
Situation 2-Somehow Someway, a war breaks out, strategies and armies are made otherwise its the end for the losing race!!! (or something, both of these scenarios are at a 99.99% chance of never happening)
First off, I think dragons would win the first because dragons are automatically more powerful and they're most likely in more of an abundance than the nearly extinct slivers that HAVE gone extinct multiple times.
Second off, I think the dragons would win the second time as well because, war means preparation time where the leaders sit all comfy and defended while they come up for a strategy to win, and guess whos a dragon, The Ur Dragon, Niv Mizzet, and Nicol Bolas. Basically Infinite dragons, and two of the most intelligent minds in all of MTG lore EVER. And I know what I said excluding Planeswalkers, but...
(Yea that's all I have to say about the no Planeswalker thing)
June 27, 2019 11:09 a.m.
No body has said god yet? Are we talking as a whole or singular beings? Because I think humans would be the most powerful if where talking as whole just due to sheer biomass throughout the history of the game
June 27, 2019 4:24 p.m.
Nerdytimesorwhatever says... #17
I think an infinite amount of Bouncing Beebles , Bubbling Beebles , and the infamous Bursting Beebles would defeat every tribe or god/avatar.
June 27, 2019 5:02 p.m.
Sarkhan420X says... #18
cireretals if 1 of every sliver were allowed to gather then sure, but i think he was referring to individual members of the species. also, "phyrexian" isn't a creature type either.
June 27, 2019 8:36 p.m.
Sarkhan420X says... #19
the whole "ugin being weaker than the eldrazi titans" and "dragons being killed by humans or other creatures" is a product of bad writing, and also strawmaning by cdkime, in my personal opinion.
elder dragons were said to be on the same level as pre-mending planeswalkers. both were so immensely power that they were pretty much invincible gods. Ugin and his twin Nicol Bolas however, were both. Elder dragons AND planeswalkers. if the story had stayed true to that lore, and the writers weren't more concerned with just making eldrazi out to be monstrous world enders, Ugin should have been able to mop the floor with Emrakul even with a bad hangover and an arm tied behind his back.
as much as i love slivers (i've been playing them in modern for a few years now), they cant beat a dragon in a 1v1.
June 27, 2019 8:46 p.m.
I think the reason no one even considers gods for this is because they're kinda week in the lore. Elspeth killed one, Ajani might be about to kill a bunch of them by stripping them of followers, and Nissa even manipulated one.(https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/magic-story/hand-moves-2017-04-26)
Compare that to concepts, or an ever adapting armies, or creatures that warp planes... their in-cannon feats aren't too impressive, nor are many of their cards.
June 28, 2019 8:32 a.m.
in terms of playability maybe, but like, their effects don't seem that... amazing, I guess? like, compare what Heliod, God of the Sun does compared to Progenitus . Heliod might be the better card some cases, but Progenitus's power is on another level.
June 28, 2019 11:03 a.m.
Pretty much all the gods saw competitive play in standard and few see play outside of standard
June 28, 2019 2:41 p.m.
Nerdytimesorwhatever says... #24
I think the query is referential to the lore more than the cards. Card power wise, Emrakul, Aeons Torn is the best. So eldrazi would win. But in lore, due to questionable writing decisions, eldrazi are killable. So, what is actually the ultimate creature type?
June 29, 2019 2:30 a.m.
MLGSavageBoy says... #25
Nerdytimes, that’s not true because card wise, Progenitus and Marit Lage both cancel each other out. Emerakul cant stop either of them. Progenitus couldn’t stop Emerakul though. Marit Lage (card wise) is the biggest base creature. I think Draco is second at a 16/16 but I’m pretty sure he was transformed into the Artifact Creature that he is, meaning he wasn’t always that strong.
June 29, 2019 2:59 a.m.
Nerdytimesorwhatever says... #26
Well Worldspine Wurm needs to be mentioned if you're being referential to card stats. It also needs to be pointed out that Emrakul was flying and gave you and extra turn and had protection from colored stuff. I digress.
I think this is more about the theoretical potential of the lore characters/tribes. That's why Slivers are mentioned up top a bunch, though the deck strategy was never super cogent in any format.
Gods were pretty powerful from The row, but theyre constrained to a plane.
Progenitus being an avatar and having protection from colors is cool, but again would get rekt by worldspine wurm (neither would die in the card game) or Emrakul/draco (wins combat trades in the TCG).
June 29, 2019 3:05 a.m.
MLGSavageBoy says... #27
None of those cards would “rek” Progenitus, he has “Protection from Everything”. Which means he can’t be targeted, can’t be blocked, and when he blocks a creature the damage fizzles. And no it’s not about the “theoretical potential” because I’m the one that made the post lol. You’re failing to mention anything from the lore. Not that what you’re saying is wrong, but The Ur Dragon would get demolished in combat trades but in the lore he’s ENORMOUS. Read the wiki for The Ur Dragon it’s insane.
June 29, 2019 12:56 p.m.
Nerdytimesorwhatever said: "...[Slivers] was never super cogent in any format."
June 29, 2019 1:41 p.m.
MLGSavageBoy says... #29
Yea, Nerdytimes check your facts before you make make dumb comments XD, Slivers prices are really high for the reason that they were really cogent, the reason no one ever sees them (which is why I’m assuming you think they’re bad) is because they are really expensive. But in lore they aren’t exactly consistent. But in the game they are really good.
June 29, 2019 1:52 p.m.
CastleSiege says... #30
Dang this thread is still going. I thought I put an end to it haha.
In all seriousness, the Eldrazi are probably the strongest creature type, both in lore and mechanically. For lore, just look at what they did to Zendikar and Innistrad. Their presence literally consumes all mana on the plane and warp everything, living or inanimate. Mechanically, just read the text on any of the Titans' cards. Even their drones are nothing to scoff at. They make token creatures that sacrifice for mana. Some interact with the Exile zone, which is a particularly rare mechanic for cards to have.
June 29, 2019 3:47 p.m.
Nerdytimesorwhatever says... #31
I mean, Ive built slivers in a few formats with the intent of being competitively viable, they aren't viable. Are you referring to The First Sliver or what? That's because of a Foodchain deck in EDH. Unless some other slivers have been printed that improve them in Modern, or Pauper, they don't exist in legacy or vintage either. Do you have competitive decklists for them in different formats? Id be interested because they're cool.
Ah the "Protection from anything" clause. Forgot about that. Would that make Avatars/Gods (again these keywords interchange) the most powerful, or hydras?
We also need to clearly define the boundaries of some stuff. Marit Lage (another [demi-]god/avatar woo) for instance is P/T huge, but doesn't traverse the eternities, nor does Progenitus.
Progenitus not being able to leave Dominaria makes sense in that it embodies much of the mana on the plane/is somewhat akin to the Soul of Zendikar in that the destruction of the plane would be resultant in the destruction of the creature. We know Progenitus needs access to mana (at least over an insanely long period of time) or heads will either away and it will go dormant. So even though it has protection from everything(except spunky elves with poisoned knives?) If it were locked in combat for a long enough period of time/forced to inhabit a location with insufficient mana for long enough, would it lose protection against the colors it lost (corresponding to the kosses of heads)? If not, it would still be severely hampered.
Main point on Progenitus/Marit Lage, IMO- It cant leave Dominaria. Plane destruction would kill it. Ur-Dragon could, idk just leave and continue entropying in a direction. So could the eldrazi.
We could try to figure out their dimensions and how many newtons they can generate? Just on weight alone lol
Cogent: clear, logical (definitely irrelevant in this context lol) Intended word: Cohesive
June 29, 2019 3:52 p.m.
Best creature type is Goblin. They're like cockroaches, they everywhere and can even survive in the shadow of tyrannical dragons and nuclear winter. Plus, they're so cute.
Dawww, he's so cold and cute! You just can't beat that.
June 29, 2019 6:41 p.m.
MLGSavageBoy says... #33
(https://magic.wizards.com/sites/mtg/files/images/wallpaper/Call-the-Gatewatch_OGW_1920x1080_Wallpaper.jpg "enter image title here") Well The Ur Dragon is as big as at least Kozilek and Ulamog and if he was truly that size in the lore, I'm pretty sure he could kill all three of them if it was a one on one (I use that term loosly considering all of them make subjects but I think you all get what I'm saying). But in the lore he is much, much bigger.
The Ur-Dragon, Progenitor of Fire, is an enormous and immensely powerful Dragon Avatar. An entity from the dawn of time, it is the primordial essence of all Dragonkind in the Multiverse.[1][2][3] With its wings, that extend across the eternities, it stirs the fabric of the cosmos. Its breath bellows over the mortals, stealing the essence of life. With claws that rake the aether, it sunders ancient bonds. Thanks to its eyes, the Ur-Dragon perceives the deepest truths concealed in the wells of time. Its bellowing roar summons its brood, echoing through the blood of all dragonkind, for the Ur-Dragon is the progenitor from which the dragons of the Multiverse spawned.[4] The Ur-Dragon is described as a huge, dark and terrifying shadow. It is a being that lives betwixt and between, in a place and in no place: it is apparently blind. In its travel through the planes, it creates storms with the beating of its wings: from such storms other dragons are born. Its "children" include the twin Elder Dragons Ugin and Nicol Bolas, as well as their siblings and cousins.[5]
That is the wording used to describe The Ur Dragon and its more than anything I could find for the Titans. Plus, I was thinking, would creatures with indestructible and protection even have it in the lore like the do in the game. But in all of Emrakuls card arts he looks smaller thank the other titans. Just in my opinion though
June 29, 2019 7:12 p.m.
If all the goblins stood on each other's shoulders, they'd be taller than all the eldrazi and all the dragons.
WHO'S BIGGER NOW?!
June 29, 2019 7:28 p.m.
MLGSavageBoy says... #36
No but back to a real note, I was told Elves by someone whos opinion I except as pretty high. But when I asked him why, he said, "Elves are awesome". So IDK. I personally don't believe Elves are the most powerful.
June 30, 2019 2:38 p.m.
Elves might seem powerful, but think of the numbers game. Humans are like chickens to elves, and goblins are like chickens to humans. So in other words, for every elf, there are at least 7.4 goblins. And again, if they just stand on each other's shoulders, boom, taller. You have to assume at least one of these guys is a Siege-Gang Commander , or something, so he's pretty tall too.
Don't even ask what happens if the goblins bring their chickens to the battle! Or about that 0.4th of a goblin. We don't talk about them.
June 30, 2019 2:46 p.m.
Nerdytimesorwhatever says... #38
I think a billion Ankle Shanker s would defeat the Ur Dragon. Seems legit.
June 30, 2019 3:02 p.m.
MLGSavageBoy says... #41
Bro I’m trying to get a serious answer from this forum can you please stop filling it with messages that don’t apply to the conversation.
June 30, 2019 9:13 p.m.
Nerdytimesorwhatever says... #42
On a serious note, are Ur-Dragon's nuts bigger than Emrakul? I think this is kinda important. Scale is important in conflict right? I mean if Ur Dragon is bigger than like all the goblins and the eldrazi, is it a moot point and the narrow tribe of god dragons are just the most powerful? Who does that include? Niv and Ur dragon?
July 1, 2019 1:14 a.m.
MLGSavageBoy says... #43
Well I’m assuming yes, The Ur Dragons balls (or lack there of considering we don’t have a gender for The Ur Dragon) would be bigger than the anything in the multiverse. Because it’s wings extend across all eternity and it’s claws are naturally in a different dimension. Which is also infinite from what I’ve seen. And yes I think that would be an accurate thing to say about them being the only “god” dragons considering Nicol Bolas is now a desparked cripple who’s trapped in a prison cell with Ugin watching him till he dies. This is all assuming that the eternities that are mentioned are the same as the blind eternities. Idk why it wouldn’t be, it’s the only eternity that’s only ever mentioned. And it really wouldn’t be that far of a stretch because only very powerful godlike entities and planes walkers can exist in there and the Ur Dragon is pretty godlike.
July 1, 2019 6:59 a.m.
So The Ur-Dragon is the reason we're comparing dragons to Eldrazi? He's a dragon avatar. One more reason to put avatar as one of the most powerful creature types
July 1, 2019 10:03 a.m.
First, I object to the idea that the Ur-Dragon is a male. If it had a gender, wouldn't it likely be female?
Actual logic aside, if the Ur-Dragon's balls are the biggest, than the Goblins still win, because they're so small they're like his sperm. That's pretty much what goblins are, if you think about it. As pollen is to trees, goblins are to the Ur-Dragon.
Besides, goblins are at the right height to punch about any race in the genetalia. And if they're already in the Ur-Dragon's cloaca, all the better to start kicking!
July 1, 2019 4:58 p.m.
MLGSavageBoy says... #47
But my counter argument to that is, Avatars are projections of a higher power or greater entity and what happens when that projection goes away, the greater entity remains, but it’s not an avatar anymore and it’s back to the types is already had (if it had any to begin with). The Ur Dragon is already the second biggest Avatar, the first being the physical embodiment of death that can only get big when something’s close to death. But even if The Ur Dragon decided to join the Avatars and for some reason let the avatars kill EVERY SINGLE DRAGON (which is impossible considering there is a limited amount of Avatars and a near limitless amount of Dragons constantly being born, and imagine all of those dragons in the same plane fighting to defend a almighty being and all of those dragons would constantly be shredding these Avatars to bits), The Ur Dragon Could just make more Dragons XD.
July 1, 2019 5:32 p.m.
MLGSavageBoy says... #48
KongMing The Ur Dragon is as tall as mountains. If the goblins were to tower each other they would eventually just fall over because the one on the bottom can’t hold enough for them to be able to reach said genitalia
July 1, 2019 5:35 p.m.
MLGSavageBoy says... #49
And The Ur Dragon is a Dragon first and an Avatar second, meaning if someone’s dumb enough to cause genocide to dragons I don’t think The Ur DRAGON will join their side
July 1, 2019 5:37 p.m.
Nerdytimesorwhatever says... #50
I think, in all honesty, that the Ur Dragon identifies as nonbinary. Its had eons upon eons to think about it.
I think perhaps the thread should be about the strongest entity capable of inhabiting the material plane, not projections of entities.
That would remove 2 of the more problematic groups: The Ur Dragon and I guess Eldrazi because they would be the most powerful were there no Big Daddy Mommy Dragon. I think an argument can be made that seeing as Ur Dragon can literally create Planeswalkers (or those who can become walkers) and that's a banned group for this discussion.
Then the conversation would be about a far more even playing field: itty bitty entities who aren't the size of planes of existence
cireretals says... #2
Point of order, Planeswalker is not a creature type.
That being said if its sheer fight to the death I think the 3 most powerful types are are eldrazi, phyrexian, and slivers. And if they were all fighting the phyrexians and the eldrazi would duke it out and then the slivers would adapt and eat them both. As far as most powerful creature on its own, the slivers are far from that but if they are aloud to horde, good luck.
June 26, 2019 10:40 a.m.