Tired of the gatewatch?
Lore forum
Posted on June 15, 2017, 2:28 p.m. by Dabean27
Honestly the bitching and complaining about people getting tired of the gatewatch is old. That's the super arch that the story is on stop complaining it's like people complaining about how there's to make weatherlight crew in the weatherlight saga or urza during his arch I mean come on stop complaining and enjoy the ride what's wrong with regular characters
LittleBlueHero says... #3
The same thing that is wrong with Marvel. We love all these characters on their own, but when you keep forcing them to team up all the time it just gets old.
Its not that I don't like the characters, I would just like to see them off on their own doing their own thing from time to time, developing then coming back together when needed bringing new ideas and attitudes to the team. Which would sometimes work out great and other times cause dissent amongst them... you know... Drama.
The team dynamic just gets old quick.
A good example of Team Focused storytelling in my opinion is the X-Men Comics. There are always going to be teams, but characters are constantly in flux, dying, having families etc. Its never really the same. With the Gatewatch its always the same deal.
June 15, 2017 2:38 p.m.
Btw I have no clue what your talking about with marvel their story telling is dynamic and amazing
June 15, 2017 2:55 p.m.
LittleBlueHero says... #5
Everyone is entitled to their opinion.
Mine is that they just do one cataclysmic event story after the next and are failing to give the individual books the attention they deserve. You shouldn't have to always read 4 or five different books to get the whole story for one character.
Marvel Studios has admitted to doing this with their movies and has already promised more character driven solo films in the future. Its only a matter of time before Marvel Comics realizes the reason their sales have been tanking is because their stories are getting predictable and repetitive. You can only threaten the universe so many times in a two year span before I stop caring.
Again just my opinion.
June 15, 2017 3:05 p.m.
Dabean27, I agree, but I think it's almost more of a trendy thing on this site to hate the gatewatch, and Jace in particular. You gotta just take advantage of it. While those players are fixated on complaining about not wanting what they have, you go and make the best with what's available and be better for it.
June 15, 2017 4:24 p.m.
I'm more of the opinion that the stories should revert the focus back to the legendary creatures from the respective blocks (like Agrus Kos and Glissa). I understand that planeswalkers are crucial to the lore of the game, but it's starting to get a bit...stale to me, and the Gatewatch make it worse.
The recent shifts are a start, but I remain cautiously optimistic about what will happen. But, hey, can't complain about pirates and dinosaurs, right? XD
June 15, 2017 6:53 p.m. Edited.
Honestly, if there were more multidimensional new characters, this wouldn't be an issue. But it just feels like they're kinda forced down our throats with the whole Gatewatch thing.
The other part of the issue is that these characters have just been going on too long in the story. In the past magic stories, we got to shift all of them around, and got Jace in some sets and Gideon in others. Right now, it's literally all 5 of them over and over. And there isn't much additional story devices or drama for them.
I mean, Jace is also just an annoying character at times. He feels pretentious and douchey.
June 15, 2017 8:29 p.m.
Why the gatewatch is a problem: the same five characters show up on a plane that some other walker has told them is about to experience a massive multi-Versal threat, beat their faces against the threat (exception being kaladesh, which I thought was a great set) and still somehow emerge victorious. No strategy, minimal relevant research, massive damage caused to the plane... and a win.
Every set has been like that since BFZ. Even with return to inistrad where Jace was supposed to be doing detective work, it just turned into "oh yup... it's emrakul alright" and the gatewatch throwing themselves at her. So my big problem with the gatewatch is that they constantly act like headstrong teenagers but win because plot armor.
The problem with jace is that his character has been fluid over the course of magics history. At times he's been competent and powerful (alara and prior), completely incompetent and lacking full control of his powers (post alara), at times young and naive (origins, but this is pardonable because origins), and now he's the background idea guy who pulls plot devices out of his ass and otherwise sits in the background. And each of these switches revolves around critical plot points in the lore (bolas v jace, and jace barely escaping with his mind damaged, sarkahn time traveling/changing history, and jace's re-introduction to the gatewatch). Point is, with so many massive plot developments, jace could have been phased out like Ajani or garruk, but he wasn't. He's ALWAYS here, despite being ravnica's guildpact.
It's like being forced to have a PB&J every time you want a sandwich. PB&J is fine, but a little diversity is NOT too much to ask for.
My biggest problem is Gideon; I won't rant, but he's the worst mono-white walker ive ever seen (lore wise) and we're stuck with him cuz he's invincible. From him and jace stem any of my further personal dislike of the gatewatch... because I'm sick of jace being in every set, and of Gideon neither developing as a character nor dieing for his absolute stubbornness and hubris.
June 16, 2017 3:27 a.m.
RicketyEng says... #10
But there has been character development for Gideon. We have seen his hubris grow to new heights with the way he destroyed the Cataclysmic Gearhulk and in his defiance of Bontu. We have also seen his hubris and judgmental outlook challenged by Bontu, Djeru, and Hazoret. They have finally forced him to realize (or start to at least) that he is in fact mortal, and that he keeps making the same mistakes over and over. He might finally be realizing that is not a cycle he can continue indefinitely.
If that isn't enough character development then you could dig a bit more to look into his interactions with the members of the Gatewatch. All of those relationships have been developing in various ways.
I will concede that Jace does not appear to be nearly as powerful as he once was. Probably his greatest feat lately was holding together so much at once during the blockade run with Kari Zev. He does still get a bit of development though. We have seen him resisting Liliana and putting her in her place multiple times. He tries to be nice about it though which is why he hasn't all out told her off and burned down that bridge. Keeping Liliana at least partially interested is also one way he is keeping her in the Gatewatch.
Liliana gets plenty of development and we get valuable insights into her. We have seen her insecurities and how her outward confidence is not always genuine. She has actually started to become friends with some of the Gatewatch members, but the recent news of Razaketh and the manner in which she killed him both caused some fresh distrust and distaste which are developments.
We have seen Chandra begin to develop some small amounts of control over her temper and patience. Having friends she can trust is a big part of that. Knowing now that she does have family might also help her avoid suicidal thoughts when things appear to be all her fault.
Nissa is my favourite. Neo Nissa is probably the most well developed of any member of the Gatewatch. She has learned so much about how to have friends and about different views of the natural flow of magic. Now she has started to actively seek knowledge and to also put thought into her actions instead of just reacting instinctively. Adding blue alignment to her mastery of leylines has given her knew powers to hack magic. I like calling her Neo Nissa because she can "see the Matrix."
This has been my set of arguments showing that there has been character development going on in he members of the Gatewatch. With any story you need to get the characters established before you can really start shaking things up. I feel we have the foundation necessary now and just in time for next spring when we might see some division form.
June 16, 2017 9:11 a.m.
Personally, I don't engage with or care much about the overarching story of Magic but the exectuion of the Gatewatch still annoys me because their problems extend beyond their writing; the cards that represent them also tend to be homogenous and uninteresting. It's a hell of a lot harder to get excited about new planeswalker cards when it's just finding out what minor variations on bounce/card draw/-X they're giving to Jace this time or how exactly Gideon's damage prevention/creature-form will be formatted this time. And I'm also not particularly thrilled to see exactly how the art of "wizard in blue cloak standing around" or "red-headed woman wreathed in flame" will be rendered for the 8th or 9th time.
June 16, 2017 9:51 a.m.
jace and lili need to have a baby.
Liliana dies during birth and takes Jace with her.
Nissa Takes in the baby and raises him/her in the forest to become a Tree hugger with the ability to Raise a Hippie army at will.
Chandra fucks up somehow as always and burns the forest. Killing Nissa and granting the baby Pyro abilities.
Enraged Gideon kills Chandra and takes the baby orphan. He raises the baby to become the ultimate fighting soldier.
However Gideon made a big mistake not teaching the young child about the rest of the planeswalkers and one day Nicol bolas gets to the young lad. and one thing leads to another and the baby kills gideon only to realize it was a big mistake.
-The Wizard-Necromancer Tree hugging, pyromaniac Baby- Super soldier Now Swears revenge on Bolas.
And that is how the gatewatch ends
Epochalyptik says... #2
Most of the complaining is about the constant featuring of the Gatewatch at the expense of other, newer characters. It's fine to have a main story arc (not arch), but it's also a good idea to introduce new blood to help expand the story and even highlight the growth of the main cast. Otherwise, you're just telling ad nausaem the tale of how the Gatewatch went to plane X and did Y and saved the day again. Having the same heroes in every block gets old.
June 15, 2017 2:37 p.m.