Tumblr God Theory
Lore forum
Posted on Dec. 9, 2015, 6:29 p.m. by dbpunk
All the Gods are ex-planeswalkers, not just Heliod (somewhat obvious), Kruphix (stated in game writing at one point) and Xenagos (literally the entire fucking plot of the Theros block). And I have some proof, which is stated what each creature type and original plane they were from, with a bit of evidence for my thinking.
Heliod: Human, Bant (left the Godsend upon that plane, as well as seemingly follows a similarily white strategy of oppressive power).
Thassa: Merfolk, unknown plane (she doesnt have legs, which is a trait that almost all Therosian merfolk possess)
Erebos: Demon or Human, Innistrad (the horn like structures on his head are increasingly similar to Griselbrand and other demons horns, however he isnt as mindless as the demons of Theros)
Purphoros: Human, Mirrodan (smithing only appears in red human creatures, despite having the primary red god be the god of the forge, which suggests its a new technology on Theros and may have only been around as long as Purphoros has. As well, his armor has extreme similarity with the armor of Mirran Crusader, despite both the color difference and plane difference)
Nylea: Elf, Zendikar or Llanowar (her extreme connection to beasts and nature, as well as her seemingly elven appearance and extreme skill at bow and arrow suggest that she may in fact be an elf, which is a species that doesnt exist on Theros)
Ephara: Human, Vrin or Kaladesh (for one thing, if you look closely at the art for Ephara, her arm appears robotic and her clothing appear as if blue dyed leather, both of which dont quite exist yet on Theros, suggesting she is from a technologically more advanced plane)
Phenax: Human, Innistrad (although Phenax doesnt directly control zombies or is a zombie, it does suggest he have some connection to them, or modeled them similarly to him. This sounds similar to the Innistrad stitchers, who would make zombies, but with increased ambition and arrogance to make zombies in his own image)
Mogis: Minotaur, Ravnica (there is no way that the Therosians would bring a Minotaur to that level of power, nor would a Minotaur show as much intelligence as Mogis shows. Rather, he reminds me of older minotaurs such as the one in Boros, but is too violent for the Boros Legion)
Xenagos: Satyr, Theros (this is pretty obvious)
Karametra: Human, Phyrexia (her headcovering is almost perfectly phyrexian or similar to the praetors coverings. As a green creature directly connected to plant life, she would have gotten the fuck outta there the moment phyrexian oil got anywhere near her)
Athreos: Human, Theros (although he appears skeletal and zombie like in appearance, he still is nearly human. As well, a dead spirit or a god created from thin air could not be trusted with the boat taking souls across Nyx)
Keranos: Human, Ravnica (his idea of lighning bolts and giving knowledge even if it kills the person he gives it to does sound way way WAY to similar to another UR creature we know, not to mention the Izzets ideas may have come from someone before they came to Niv-Mizzet)
Pharika: Naga, Tarkir (although Gorgons may have snake like bodies on Theros, they also seem to have snake hair as would Medusa, which Pharika lacks. As well, the poisoning traits of Pharika and her attitude where the poison may kill the follower or save the follower, either way itll benefit me is distinctly similar to the traits of the Sultai)
Iroas: Centaur, unknown plane (although centaurs are an extremely common creature type in Theros, they rarely if ever are red or white. Appearance wise as well, his helmet style and brawniness appear to look nothing like the centaurs of Theros, instead invoking Karador and Stonebrow as similar centaurs)
Kruphix: OROCHI!!!, Kamigawa (very few creatures are associated with GU with four arms, and as was most recently shown by the new commander set, the Orochi are one of them. As well, Orochi tend to be very similar to his idea of gathering mana and drawing cards)
These are some reasons, but there are more including how the Gods have their personalities and abilities directly linked to the mana they control, as well as the effect on their appearance, which suggests that the Nyxs power will affect the appearance of the user (for example, the black gods seemingly had a sickened look and the red gods seemingly look like strength personified). But the question is, why isnt there Kruphixian order of monks or the Iroasian Centaur tribes, as there is with the Order of Heliod?
Simple: Heliod was the last planeswalker to arrive on Theros, making it so that any records of them on other planes be lost to the tracks of time. Which also explains his knowledge of the fact planeswalkers may become gods and that Godsend will destroy Gods/planeswalkers. Kruphix, being the God of Knowledge, only has some knowledge due to his status as that specific god and his connection to prophecy, but the other gods may have been there so long that only they remember. Or their memory has been erased by the only planeswalker old enough to actually affect them or want to get rid of other planeswalkers: Nicol Bolas.
Nicol Bolas could have easily seen Theros and the process of a pre-mending Planeswalker becoming a God. Seeing it as a good dumping ground, he would bring any problematic planeswalker there and dump them, promising them unlimited power. When they became too wild, he would remove their memory, locking them upon since they no longer had any knowledge of sparks. Only Heliod seemed to retain memory: simply because Nicol Bolas saw him as the perfect control freak, able to control the gods easier, and setting him as the last god prior to the mending. In this way, Heliod could take control and ensure his power.
However, this also raises questions on why the exclusion of Xenagos. Why would Xenagos be a bad enough threat that they required the Godsend to dispose of him?
For one thing, he was an anomaly. No post mending planeswalker should have the power to become a god, and that threatened the gods. Second, it would also raise questions among the other gods, and Heliod would lose all his power. Finally, the chaos he caused couldnt be solved by Nicol Bolas erasing memories and changing the plane, as he had in the pre-mending days, nor was Xenagos able to be bound by the same black mana that bound Athreos, Erebos or Phenax, thus making him impossible to stop without killing him.
tl;dr all the gods are planeswalkers, Heliod fucked all them over and Nicol Bolas and Heliod are a thing.
canterlotguardian says... #3
Mind = blown. I had always thought Kruphix was a PW though.
December 9, 2015 7:17 p.m.
There's a few problems here:
Godsend was forged by Purphoros to kill Heliod. Elspeth then took the blade when it was knocked out of Nyx and planeswalked with it.
Erebos is Heliod's shadow manifested. Heliod saw his own shadow and banished it. That shadow became Erebos.
The only part of your theory that holds is Heliod being an ex-walker (There is something called the Order of Heliud, which sounds disturbingly similar to the god in question).
December 9, 2015 7:32 p.m.
TheFoilAjani says... #5
Warning: Long post ahead. You have been warned.
The main problem with the theory is that there is literal zero proof that any of the non-Xenagos Gods are walkers. I'm curious as to which card references Kruphix specifically though. I've never seen that one.
Godsend: As said before, Purphoros was the forger of Godsend, so there's that.
Heliod: I could see Heliod being an ex-PW, but half of his theory (Godsend) is disproven.
Thassa: Thassa I think wouldn't be a PW because we already have one merfolk Walker and WotC is racist.
Erebos: Again, this was disproven by the previous poster, but he is Heliod's shadow, so Erebos can't be an ex-pw.
Purphoros : The reason why all the smiths are red is because red is the colour of smiths. You can't have smiths without there being red, as that is just red's thing. You can have some white smiths occasionally, but those are more of outfitters than smiths. I don't think that is proof of any kind.
Nylea: This god could possibly be true. Elves aren't on Theros, which is a valid point. I think the fact that she has a bow doesn't mean much, as Theros Gods are literally manifestations of what mortals think of them. They can change eventually, which also kind of makes the PW-by-race wrong. As far as we know, PWs can't be changed just because everyone decides that Tibalt is a horse. But that isn't true for Gods. Heliod could be a giant sun-beast if everyone believed hard enough.
Ephara: The reason her arm looks like a robot is because she is made of stone, at least that's what it seems to be. Blue leather is fairly obviously just blue cloth. Several cards have that. Also, U/W isn't Kaladesh. That plane is R/U. Also, I believe Vyrn is W/G. Finally, if she is from the robot plane, why isn't mechanic really thing? The closest thing we have is Colossus of Akros, which is magic. Why aren't thopters a thing?
Phenax: Phenax doesn't make zombies. He gives spirits a way to get back, albeit a way that condemns them to basically slavery. Stitchers literally just animate zombies.
Mogis: The reason why he is a thing is because MINOTAURS raised him up. Are you saying minotaurs aren't Therosian, you racist? Of course, I kid, but the point stands.
Karametra: I don't think he headdress is Phyrexian. It's literally wicker. Wood matter doesn't even exist on New Phyrexia.
Athreos: I don't see how your reasons indicate he is a PW, especially if he is FROM Theros.
Keranos: I totally support the Keranos/Ral/Jace ship. However, Niv-Mizzet is who started the whole damn guild. I don't think there was anyone before him.
Pharika: I think this is stretching it a bit. Pharika has a humanoid face, but Naga still have snake-like faces, similar to Voldemort. Also, Pharika is in no way malicious, unlike Tarkir Naga. She also is in no way controlling of people. He disciples are the ones that healed Elspeth when she came to Theros at one point. I think the poison aspect is just to show how random healing can be. Tarkir Naga would never actually help someone.
Iroas: Really, there is no speculation about this guy. He is literally a centaur. He is a god of war. I don't think that indicates anything.
Kruphix: I will have to reserve judgment until I see the card, but I would love a Kruphix Walker. That guy is dope.
Gods have personalities and abilities linked to the mana they control because that's how magic fucking works! A blue god isn't going to do green god things. Using that as evidence is blatant idiocy and ignorance of what magic is about.
There actually is a sort of Kruphixian order. Prophet of Kruphix and Agent of Horizons show that there is actually a loose organization of monks and information gatherers. The whole fucking city of Akros worships Iroas. Ephara is the patron of Meletis. Karametra was revered by the Setessans, and Mogis by the minotaurs. Pharika had cults or groups of healers and witches.
Also, if Nicol Bolas has the ability to bind and vegetabalize Planewalkers, why the fuck wouldn't kill them? Then there is an absolute zero chance of shenanigans.
Anyways, long post. Thanks for reading.
December 9, 2015 8:19 p.m.
bennybubbles says... #6
I agree, I think that saying that all the Theros gods were planeswalkers is clutching at straws. MAYBE 1 or 2 of them is, as we have seen that walkers can become gods, but the gods are by and large, created by the mortals of Theros.
December 9, 2015 9:47 p.m.
This is theory, mind you.
Godsend being forged by Purphoros means that Purphoros met Heliod and recognized trouble. Doesn't mean he wasn't a planeswalker at the time.
Kruphix's thing was from a UR article, where he seemed to know what's up.
As for the Shadow thing and the Twin thing, there is a chance that those are myths, like all the stories about the Greek gods. But there may be the fact that these myths have some truth. For example, Erebos may have come around the same time as the first time Heliod visited the plane, and that's when he was banished. As well, the Twin Gods may have been "vegetabalized" at the same time.
Some of the things you brought up are good points TheFoilAjani but also some of it may literally be the influence of Theros on the Gods themselves. As well, all the orders you mentioned in the comment are based on Theros and may be made after the advent of the gods. Also, wouldn't it be more evil Nicol Bolas style to trap them on that plane, or trick them into staying there forever?
As well, a lot of this is speculation based on art and some lore. It's a fan theory, not canon. It's just a new perspective as to how to view the mythology of the Gods as it is now.
December 9, 2015 11:43 p.m.
As well, although Gods are manifestations of how people view them, they most likely retain part of their own nature from prior to planeswalking. Which is why Pharika doesn't have some of he tell tale signs (medusa hair) of a Gorgon and Iroas looking slightly different from other Centaurs. Once again, purely theory.
December 9, 2015 11:46 p.m.
bennybubbles says... #9
About Kruphix, I seem to remember that the UR where they mention something like that is just him reaching his knowledge to its limits. As he is the oldest and wisest of the gods, as well as due to the recent developments in Theros, he has begun to learn of planes and planeswalkers. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't remember anything pointing towards him being a planeswalker.
December 9, 2015 11:55 p.m.
TheFoilAjani says... #10
The problem with the Godsend theory is that Elspeth got Godsend right after Purphoros made it (as far as I am aware).
As for the orders, of course they sprung up after the advent of Gods. You don't widespread worship a god that there was no trace of. I mean, mass hysteria could be a cause, but there is no indication.
As for the shadow/twin thing, I'm inclined to believe that the twin thing is more made up but the shadow is real.
Nicol has been goozaled before, so I think if the gods are walkers that pose a threat to him, I think he will go to slay them. I don't think he wants a repeat of Tarkir.
Of course, this is all speculation of a dissenter. Honestly I'm glad I didn't go into the "hate conspiracies argg" mode and actually participated in discussion. Yay.
December 9, 2015 11:58 p.m.
There's no real proof for any of this. It's all speculative theory of course. As for the UR it was from a while ago. Of course, there's no definite proof either proving or disproving it.
December 10, 2015 12:14 a.m.
http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/uncharted-realms/kruphixs-insight-2014-06-11
As for my theory, it's not perfect and doesn't account for everything, but it's a start. And something I think works as a way for the Gods to be looked at. I'm sure there could be other things as I keep reading stuff and develop it.
December 10, 2015 12:19 a.m.
bennybubbles says... #14
Definitely an interesting theory, and I am completely down for it being correct, it opens up so much in terms of cards and story telling.
December 10, 2015 12:59 a.m.
Yes but a theory nonetheless, and unlike scientific theories there isn't as much evidence for this. Although I would like to flesh it out more (potentially figuring out proper planes for each God and why they may have been a threat to Nicol Bolas). The issue is that this whole theory also rests totally on pre-mending planeswalkers to even suggest it's possibility. And there are obvious holes.
December 10, 2015 1:07 a.m.
RussischerZar says... #16
I read the Theros novels and according to them, the only god that knew something about Planeswalkers was Kruphix (and possibly Phenax). Heliod slew Elspeth as she "knew too much" which could either be construed as an act of arrogance "You know more that your god? This cannot be! Die!" or - if Heliod was indeed a PW at some point - an act of self-protection "I can't have you blabbing the secrets of other planes to the other gods!"
I very strongly do not think that all of the Gods were PWs at some point.
December 10, 2015 5:42 a.m.
TheNextRedDude says... #17
I think we can all glean from this:
Heliod is a jerk.
December 11, 2015 6:32 a.m.
I just got a Xenagos, the Reveler, and I have been wondering what was up with it and Xenagos, God of Revels
December 19, 2015 5:14 p.m.
bennybubbles says... #19
If you're asking what happened, basically Xenagos hijacked a victory celebration (As a planeswalker) and changed it into The Great Revel and used that revel to ascend to godhood, disrupting the entire pantheon of Theros gods.
December 19, 2015 7:27 p.m.
Then Elspeth killed Xennagos, then the Great Asshole...I mean Heliod killed Elspeth
...Then Gideon returns to Theros and kills Heliod. The End. Alright, I'm kidding. it's just wishful thinking, ok?
December 19, 2015 7:45 p.m.
bennybubbles says... #21
Gideon tried killing a god once. It didn't work. I think he's learned his lesson. Tragic Arrogance
December 19, 2015 8:09 p.m.
I know, but maybe he wouldn't be as arrogant next time? Or will Dack Fayden steal Elspeth from right under Erebos's nose?
December 19, 2015 8:21 p.m. Edited.
bennybubbles says... #23
If Elspeth comes back then it will most likely be as a Returned like Daxos the Returned and knowing her, would probably do some BS self sacrifice again and rip everyone's hearts out once more.
December 19, 2015 8:48 p.m.
So here's some art from Origins showing Kytheon with a statue of Heliod in the background.
This has been mentioned before, but he looks very much like a man, and those "horns" looks pretty damn familiar!
I feel there is a Bolas/Heliod connection going on somewhere. I was just pleased to have a White Villain, it doesn't happen all that often.
December 23, 2015 4:52 a.m.
TheFoilAjani says... #25
I don't think those "horns" are horns. Knowing Greek/Roman Mythology and general history, those look a Hell of a lot like laurels. Heliod being the head god, it makes a lot of sense, as laurels are the leaf crowns of winners. I think Heliod is even wearing them in his card art, Heliod, God of the Sun. In his art, the laurel isn't even touching his head.
And let's talk about the horn logic. If everything that has loopy horns is a Nicolbot, then are all saytrs Ex-PW? How about the minotaurs? The random herd animals, such as Yoked Ox? What about all of the Iroan athletes that wear laurels when they win games? I don't think it holds up.
December 23, 2015 10:17 a.m.
Well I'm not saying it's 100% true, but I saw the theory being discussed previously and it might very well be a laurel, but that doesn't mean it wasn't styled of Bolas.
It's not horns in general, it's the shape and style particularly that make me think of Bolas. Yoked Ox horns do not look like Bolas horns.
Anyway, that's just a theory (a game theory)
December 23, 2015 10:27 a.m.
Saying that only 
has smiths is very flimsy. Have you completely forgotten about Nahiri? Traditionally red has done nothing but steal and break artifacts. 
is also very into forging things whether it be shields, swords, or even constructs (Myrsmith says hello.)
accelerando11 says... #2
My only concern is that Mogis and Iroas are supposed to be twins (i.e. Dictate of the Twin Gods) so... Iroas would have to theoretically be from Ravnica too? Unless they are not literally twins, but I think they're supposed to be.
Besides that, I do actually like this theory.
December 9, 2015 7:17 p.m.