UR/MS: Promises of Old and New
Lore forum
Posted on April 13, 2016, 12:15 p.m. by AgentGreen
Here's the link; URL key not working outside of preview for me: http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/magic-story/promises-old-and-new-2016-04-13
We finally get to see Sorin in action, as well as some motive behind Nahiri's rage.
(Personal note: MAN Sorin is a dick!)
PistonGolem says... #3
I thought we would get an end to the Jace cliffhanger, and as I wasn't reading well, I thought he had to jump in that portal thingy and probably die... But this is actually a cool story, with motives and backstory.
April 13, 2016 12:43 p.m.
GoldGhost012 says... #5
So I'm pretty sure of what we're supposed to infer, but...
GODDAMN CLIFFHANGERS CUTTING OFF AT JUST THE REALLY GOOD PARTS
April 13, 2016 1:27 p.m. Edited.
Anyone still NOT believe that Sorin and Jace are looking into the same threat?
April 13, 2016 1:38 p.m.
AgentGreen says... #8
Jace is looking for Sorin; and is also looking at the source of the madness
Sorin KNOWS the threat; but it looks like he needs help because I believe Nahiri has raised an army against him (Nahiri's Machinations), and who is Olivia to turn down fresh meat?
It will be interesting to see when Jace and Sorin meet.
But Sorin is still a dick.
April 13, 2016 2:51 p.m.
What I'm getting at,AgentGreen, is that I feel there is more at work than just Nahiri. Yes, Sorin likely put Nahiri inside the Helvault, and is out and ready for revenge. I know Jace is looking for Sorin. What my point is, I don't feel that Nahiri is necessarily linked to the "madness". I feel that some other power is at work. Do you feel Nahiri is responsible for the Drownyard Temple? Zombies don't seem to fit the bill with her. Gisa, though, is in fact quoted on a card saying she has "found new friends to play with". She is a ghouls caller...
April 13, 2016 3:03 p.m.
capriom85 - The cryptoliths found all over Innistrad are made of twisted stone. Unless you can think of another Lithomancer on Innistrad, I can only think Nahiri must be linked with the Drownyard Temple in some way. It may not be her alone, but she is definitely involved.
When Gisa said she 'found new friends to play with', I think that she discovered all the 'maddened' humans attracted to the temple and has begun turning them into Zombies.
April 13, 2016 3:25 p.m. Edited.
Then what the hell is Nahiri doing with the Temple? Is she bringing the moon down on Innistrad?
I didn't think the Cryptoliths would affect the people, seeing as the idea was the affect the Angels because they are creatures created of pure mana.
April 13, 2016 3:28 p.m.
So, if Nahiri was trapped inside the Helvault, it would clear-up the ongoing question of how Nahiri has managed to stay alive for so long after losing her 'near immortality' due to the mending.
April 13, 2016 3:29 p.m.
Can I ask how Sorin is a dick? Like LEGITMATELY how?
What has he doneHe helped capture the eldrazi. He realized his home plane needed protection and he did what he could to protect it. In the process he accidentally blocked out the beacons signal. Now understandably nahiri is mad BUT it's not like Sorin did this intentionally. Maybe asking him to come to zendikar nicely would've been the superior option instead of threatening him to do it. And avacyns attack would've easily been averted if nahiri hadn't of gone super killer on Sorin. He's a not a dick he pulled the typical guy act of doing something stupid without realizing. Nahiri just needs to learn to control her menstrual rage.
April 13, 2016 7:50 p.m.
GoldGhost012 says... #15
Sorin is "being a dick" by not seeing the greater picture. He understands that the Eldrazi are huge threats to the Multiverse and that they should remain locked up at all times. But when Nahiri comes to him asking for his help making sure the prison will hold, he refuses, just because he isn't done protecting his own plane. He also treats her like she's a spoiled brat with her not-entirely-unreasonable demands. And then he (speculation) just tosses her away into the Helvault until he's ready to deal with her again.
By the way, Nahiri's mending of the Eldrazi containment was flawed enough that they were able to break free later on. So Sorin refusing to go help her check on it, then locking her up inadvertently means he's the reason they broke free for good in Rise of the Eldrazi.
April 13, 2016 8:10 p.m.
She did manage to secure them and she got mad first accusing him of intentionally screwing her over and instead of asking nicely for help she threatens him
April 13, 2016 9:32 p.m.
GoldGhost012 says... #17
She got mad because he promised to come back and help keep the Eldrazi confined. When she confronted him about it he completely brushes her off, like the promise means nothing to him if it wasn't in his best interests.
Yeah, she lashes out; she's transitioning into her new white/red color identity. Sleeping next to the Eldrazi cage for thousands of years can warp you, even slightly.
And for the record, Nahiri did not throw the first punch. Avacyn did.
April 13, 2016 11 p.m.
MindAblaze says... #18
Flawed enough that it took an expertly orchestrated plan by Nicol Bolas to get them all in the same place and required Nissa's stubbornness to completely unleash them...is what I believe you mean.
April 13, 2016 11:11 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #19
In this story, it seems that the fact that Sorin created Avacyn is common knowledge, rather than a great secret, as I originally thought that it was. Why would Sorin allow that knowledge to become widespread?
So, it seems that the story was implying that Nahiri was trapped in the Helvault from the time that she awoke on Zendikar to the present time; I wonder if that is why she is so angry at Sorin?
In Sorin's flashbacks, both he and Nahiri were displaying behavior that I found to be reprehensible; first, Nahiri was being far too emotional and short-tempered, and Sorin was being too callous and unconcerned about the very legitimate issues that she was raising. If only they had each taken the time to carefully consider their actions, they could have avoided that entire argument; in fact, it seems to me that a significant number of problems in fictional stories arise from poor communication; why can people not simply communicate better?
Also, the fact that Avacyn and Nahiri were seen together should finally put and end to the idea that they are the same person, even if that idea was never a widespread one, although I do say that it is an amazing coincidence that they both have almost chalk white skin, both have a close connection to Sorin, and both seem to have been driven insane by some force.
What type of help shall Olivia seek from Sorin? It is only too easy to think suggestive thoughts about that, but I doubt that the writers will do that, as they seem to be avoiding overt sexuality in the story of this game. Perhaps she wishes for him to settle a dispute between two members of her bloodline, or to capture a particularly difficult human? Also, it is certain that Sorin and Jace shall eventually meet, but when will that actually occur?
Again, the mention of Edgar Markov has me hoping that he shall appear in person; how can WotC continually tease the audience about such an interesting character, but not have him actually appear?
April 13, 2016 11:54 p.m.
AgentGreen says... #20
Based on a couple of cards DemonDragonJ; I think that the help Sorin wants from Olivia is an army.
April 14, 2016 8:36 a.m.
DemonDragonJ wasn't asking what help Sorin is asking from Olivia, but the other way around. - He's wondering what Olivia will ask in return.
The very last line of the story is - "Oh, Sorin," she said as regained her composure. "I will help you. But first you will help me."
April 14, 2016 9:01 a.m.
I have a feeling that this is the real reason why Sorin kills Avacyn. - Not that she's killing humans... I'm sure he'd prefer to find a way to cleanse her Madness rather than kill her.
Sorin asks Olivia for help dealing with the threat that is Nahiri... in return, Olivia requests the 'Unmaking' of Avacyn... hence the 'Anguished' part of Anguished Unmaking.
Avacyn was made to protect humans from the over feeding of vampires (and other threats)... In reality this is to ensure Vampires continue to have a food source rather than killing all the humans, but not all the Vampires see it this way.
Olivia wants to be able to feed unencumbered, and to do that she needs Avacyn out of the picture.
April 14, 2016 9:09 a.m. Edited.
AgentGreen says... #23
You're likely right about that one Rayenous. That makes Olivia quite dangerous. To leave her and the other vampires unchecked would destroy that plane.....and Liliana picks up the pieces; she'll have no trouble finding more zombies to raise
April 14, 2016 12:18 p.m.
PistonGolem says... #24
Well, it would mean no more humans left, and the vampires would resort to cannibalism... I agree Rayenous...
April 14, 2016 2:01 p.m.
I also fail to see how Sorin did anything wrong. If the seals on the Eldrazi were truly weakening, then he didn't want to go risk fighting them at barely more strength than a regular human. Nahiri should go machinate her own death, or at least have a story arc that makes sense.
April 17, 2016 11:43 a.m.
PistonGolem says... #26
Well, all Nahiri asked for is to make sure the lock was in place, the Eldrazi were not even unleashed yet. She was just basically just asking Sorin for tech support, and then Sorin threw her in the helavault.
April 17, 2016 12:19 p.m.
Apart from the fact that by "ask" you meant thrash him within an inch of his life and then drag him to one of the most unpredictable planes in the multiverse to check some locks on the prison of creatures which were more powerful than he ever was.
Not a great plan.
Also, can someone explain? Pre-mending planeswalkers were more-or-less immortal, even if they were defeated. So how does the FRF story (or this one, for that matter- namely, Avacyn or not, how could a being that was killed by Sorin-at-diminished-power fight a pre-mending planeswalker?) make any sense?
Phaetion says... #2
I agree, and I felt like I was sympathizing with Nahiri the whole story. All the problems in Innistrad, from Avacyn's madness to the Drownyard Temple/Cryptoliths seem to trace back to Sorin's, well, refusal.
Besides, this story also knocks the Emrakultists further:
The story mentioned that this interaction was ages ago, and Avacyn was formed not long ago at that time. If I remember correctly, Avacyn slaying Sigarda's W/B sister took place at least a thousand years ago.
Nahiri would not have known about Jace and co. releasing the Eldrazi titans because she would have still felt very mad at Sorin for this newly revealed interaction. She did not know Emrakul had left Zendikar by extension.
It looks like Nahiri was sealed in the Helvault. When Liliana destroyed it, she must have released Nahiri as well. And, of course, Nahiri would not have known about Zendikar's current condition.
April 13, 2016 12:35 p.m.