Why Did WotC Have Two Eldrazi Titans Defeated at Once?
Lore forum
Posted on Feb. 18, 2016, 10:50 p.m. by DemonDragonJ
Numerous times did I state my hope that WotC would not have two Eldrazi titans be defeated at once, yet that has now happened. Why could they not have given each Eldrazi titan their own block in which they would have been fought and defeated, which would have been far more dramatically-appropriate? Are they rushing through the Eldrazi storyline to introduce a new threat to the multiverse? What does everyone else say about this?
Personally, I think there's more to the Eldrazi. BOTH ARE DEAD. FOR GOOD. But why? Do they have any larger significance in the Multiverse? And if so, what? I think they're going to show repercussions for killing the titans. Something's going to go wrong.
February 18, 2016 10:54 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #4
addaff, yes, but that does not stop it from straining willing suspension of disbelief. There is no good reason, either in-story or out-of-story, for Kozilek to have been on Zendikar while Ulamog was feeding on the plane. In Diablo II, each of the three prime evils is given their own act and battled separately, which makes for great drama, but having both Ulamog and Kozilek be defeated at once will make defeating Emrakul seem easy by comparison, because there is no way that Emrakul can be more powerful than the other two titans combined.
February 18, 2016 10:57 p.m.
They're not really rushing through the storyline at all. The first Zendikar set was released in Fall 2009. Almost 7 years ago. And we're still not done with them as Emrakul is still around. Not to mention, Nicol Bolas had the Eldrazi released for the sole purpose of distracting the other planeswalkers while he does some shenanigans. That's right. We've spent seven years on a distraction. I don't know about you, but I'm ready for more Bolas.
February 18, 2016 10:58 p.m.
GoldGhost012 says... #6
Bolas hype!
Also, I don't believe it's ever been said outright that the 2 titans are completely dead. Perhaps only their physical bodies could have been destroyed. Unlikely, but possible.
February 18, 2016 11:16 p.m.
Nah. At PTOGW, someone on the story team said that the titans were dead for good. I don't know who, when or why, but they confirmed that there will be no more Ulamog or Kozilek.
February 18, 2016 11:43 p.m.
Yea, I get that two separate battles may have been better storytelling but the way this was setup was good and definitely leaves open a lot of possibilities. As GoldGhost012 already noted, there was never an actual conformation in the story that they are dead, their physical forms were definitely destroyed on Zendikar but who knows what that actually does to their existence. Ugin being on the plane and not intervening is also a bit suspicious to me. I don't know what's next but I do know that I am excited for it.
February 18, 2016 11:55 p.m.
Because the common sentiment that I've heard from people is they're already sick of Eldrazi, that is certainly influenced by game play; the power level of BFZ, the onslaught of Eldrazi in Modern, and some Vorthoses did not like the centralization on the Origin 5. I don't share this opinion, but 3 blocks of dealing with the Eldrazi sounds like going overboard. You're comparing MtG to a video game, which is always a dangerous comparison. It's more like a book series, did you read Harry Potter? Well, imagine if the Deathly Hallows was several books detailing the tracking and hunting of each of the remaining horcruxes, not to mention another book for the Battle at Hogwarts. I'm tired just thinking about that.
February 19, 2016 12:03 a.m.
Imagine having to dedicate that much time to the Eldrazi. I hope you understand how their presence in a set would warp design. WotC would have to release several sets with similar themes and mechanics in a row. I'm already sick of Eldrazi atm. I cringe at the thought of having to deal with Emrakul if that thing shows up in Shadows...
February 19, 2016 1:07 a.m.
Serendipitous_Hummingbird says... #11
It's so we can get back to dealing with the real bad guys of the multiverse.
Phyrexia or gtfo
February 19, 2016 1:19 a.m.
Don't know if it's true or not, but i believe somewhere someone said it had something to do with the eldrazi titans and the mending. Since the releasing of the titans, although a mystery as to why, it was all a plan of bolas, so it had to have something to do with getting his powers back.
February 19, 2016 2:56 a.m.
I, among others, speculated on that. But as was rightfully said: it wouldn't make much sense if this was all a ruse by Bolas to have his original powers back. In order for the mending to be broken - The Breaking is a nice term to cover the act of undoing the Mending - the original spell would have been undone. If Bolas knew or foresaw: why would he not prevent the original spell being cast in the first place?
I think that Zendikar, now, is saturated with powerful essence of the Titans: perhaps Bolas wants to manipulate that essence into something?
BTW: on the original subject of two titans defeated at once. Yes, I agree it is bad storytelling. But what can we do about it? What bothers me the most is that one of the crucial points in the storyline - the taking of the oaths - is almost ridiculed by the actual 'Oath' cards.
I mean, take the Oath of Chandra, anybody else think they are weak? It is almost as if she was thinking: "Yea, I'll do something, put a bit of effort into it. Preventing ad safekeeping and stuff...I'll do some damage, but never enough, and only when I'm around" . 3 Damage...and only to creatures. 2 to opponents if a planeswalker is around. For cmc 2 This is supposed to be a groundbreaking oath, it would have been better if the 3 damage could have been attributed to creatures or opponents, or even 'divide up to 3 damage'. Now it is just weak, at least, I think so.
February 19, 2016 4:11 a.m.
I don't know where all this killing two Titans at once is bad story telling is coming from but I have to whole heartedly disagree.
Before I do the story telling standpoint I'm going to do be game playing standpoint. Do you really want another 2 whole blocks dedicated to destroying an eldrazi Titan each? Wizards is eventually going to run out of designs and ideas for our favorite world devoures and they're going to become redundant and irritating in constructed and draft formats. It's like money. The more we print it the less valuable it becomes.
Now from the story stand point. There are multiple points here for me to show.
First killing the two Titans was infact a great idea. By doing so we are shown what the gatewatch together are capable of at this time and that the eldrazi Titans CAN be killed. And the fact that Kozilek was brought in at the start of oath and was a surprise release was nice as well. It made for a great story when ob nixilis was trashing everything then he just yells and Kozilek appears. Seriously though it made for great character development to with Chandra going to save her friends from ob post Ulamog breaking free. We wouldn't have gotten that if it was just Ulamog breaking out with ob nixilis. The gatewatch never would've been formed with out Kozilek appearing.
Second for those wanting more eldrazi emerakul is still out there. And trust me she's going to be big. The difference between her power level and the other Titans is actually tangible when you think about it. She's far larger then they are and was the only one powerful enough to leave zendikar. I think it's safe to assume to that we're going to see at least one plane fall to Emrakul before she goes the way of the dinosaurs. Not to mention the fact that not all planes will be strong enough like zendikar to withstand Emrakul to absorb her like Ulamog and kozilek. When it comes time to destroy her it might be a full on all or nothing assault to destroy her without the plane they're on to help devour her.
Third we find out why Ugin wanted the Titans alive. So far in the story Ugin has been very clear on letting the eldrazi live. Now this is a being who seems to genuinely care about keeping the multiverse going. So why would he keep world destroying monsters locked away on zendikar and not flat out destroy them. There are multiple theories on why he has done this:He was going to use them on bolas.He was going to use them to make himself stronger.He was afraid of the multiversal repercussions of destroying the "Top Predator" in the multiverse and throwing the world out of balance. I have my own theory of course which is that somewhere in the blind eternities is a being on tier with the old walkers. This being was locked away and the eldrazi were created as the keys to this lock by ancient planeswalkers. Which would explain why Ugin wants them alive because with each death another lock is undone. This being is a villain on the same threat level as yawgmoth mind you not what we've seen in a long time. And while I agree bolas schemed to let the eldrazi loose he does not realize this because he would never help do something that doesn't directly benefit him.Back to the original topic one of or none of these reasons will eventually be picked by wizards. Whichever it is doesnt matter. What does matter is that destroying two Titans rather then one will have a more resounding effect whatever it may be.
Well that's just my ranty two cents. But overall I will just say I loved the story line for this block and I liked how it's closing out. Now time for the SorinxNahiri romance to become cannon
February 19, 2016 8:48 a.m.
AgentGreen says... #16
I don't mind seeing two titans getting whacked; besides, Emrakul is much stronger than those two; and could maybe resurrect Ulamog and Kozelik for a block before they are all destroyed; ridding the mulitverse of the Eldrazi.
IF at some point; the Gatewatch do challenge Phyrexia, would it be cool if they play some timewarp deal bringing the Gatewatch to the past, and finally bringing in the Urza planeswalker card? Reason to bring the past into play is because Urza was able to defeat the Phyrexians before, and the Gatewatch can do it again with his help. Right now I don't think anyone knows they're still around; and the Phyrexians are likely building up their armies to move onto another plane
February 19, 2016 9:44 a.m.
I could see that happening though before the phyrexians do move to the next plane they're going to have to seriously reorganize since it looks like theirs in fighting between the praetors. And since karn can no longer become the big bad of the Phyrexia they're gonna figure out who that will be.
February 19, 2016 10:29 a.m.
shinobigarth says... #18
because were freaking sick of eldrazi, sick of them spending several blocks trying to find help in fighting them. we need a different main villain, like coughBOLAS to show up again.
February 19, 2016 1 p.m.
People are sick of Eldrazi because of their presence and aesthetics.
February 19, 2016 2:49 p.m.
GoldGhost012 says... #20
They also completely warp the block they're in around them, making them the focus of the entire thing.
February 19, 2016 3:02 p.m.
RicketyEng says... #21
DemonDragonJ, you seem to keep missing the part where Ulamog and Kozilek were both still on the plane, consuming it, the whole time. Kozilek was just underground where no one could see it.
I agree with the points Ej1997 made about the precedents that killing two titans sets, and how it helps keep the story moving. I'm not convinced about the Keystones to a Greater Horror theory, but it's interesting enough. Either way we are likely to get some key exposition from Ugin very soon or at the very least some vague hints and riddles that nudge the story forward.
PS. Was a separate thread for this debate necessary when DemonDragonJ already started on about it in the UR - Zendikar's Last Stand thread? I'm very interested in the lore but now I have to follow two threads about the same story and feel a need to make similar comments in each.
February 19, 2016 3:39 p.m.
Why kill two? That answer is simple, the story must progress. Did you want to fight Ulamog now, Kozilek in 7 years and Emrakul in 14? This is not even considering the fact that after Oath we STILL aren't done with the Eldrazi. We still have some Emrakul booty to kick.
Kruphix, God of Horizons stated that he believed the Eldrazi, New Phyrexia, and Nicol Bolas to be the three largest threats to the multiverse and to Theros. The storyline must go on, we still have to fight the Phyrexians again, we have to deal with Bolas again, and then who knows what other threats may pop up before, during and/or after those threats.
I'm not convinced that Emrakul is behind the trouble on Innistrad. Maybe that is just me hoping we don't get Eldrazi after Eldrazi. I personally love the Eldrazi but I like to see the sets mixed up.
While you may not like that two Titans were killed in one set, we still have AT LEAST one more set that the Eldrazi can appear in.
I expect we will see Bolas very soon as Ugin is back. Their conflict can take place almost anywhere. Almost any older Plane or even a new Plane could be the battleground for them. Eldrazi are fun but the story would get stale if we had a set for each of the Titans. Did you really expect that after only Ulamog was in BFZ that Kozilek wasn't going to be in Oath? I kind of expected we were going to defeat all 3 in the same block when BFZ was announced. From my perspective we got even more Eldrazi than I thought we would because we still have more coming.
addaff says... #2
Cause it's one less to kill later on
February 18, 2016 10:52 p.m.