A new Twin?
Modern Deck Help forum
Posted on May 10, 2016, 8:53 a.m. by WizardOfTheNorthernCoast
Sup guys,
So long story short I have been wondering why we still haven't seen a new "Twin-like" deck in modern?
We have several replacement, though less good, but still decent nontheless imo.
Midnight Guard + Elemental Mastery = win
Village Bell-Ringer / Pestermite / Deceiver Exarch / Restoration Angel + Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker = win
Melira, Sylvok Outcast / Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit + any persist creature + Blasting Station = win
Any Altar of the Brood involved in either one of the combos mentioned above = win
I mean these are clunky combos but I think they have potential if we seriously work on it, right? :D
I actually have a build with Anafenza / Melira / Persiters (Finks etc) and Station that is surprisingly consistent thanks to Collected Company.
Just wanted to have your opinion on the subject lads, peace out.
WizardOfTheNorthernCoast says... #3
I was thinking of a Jeskai shell to exactly keep that control side of the game for the 2 first combos I mentionned.
The Melira Station deck I built is Abzan (Heavy discard to protect your combo before you try to go off and CoCo to find your key pieces EOT). I think Bant could be good too, for that control shell once again.
These clearly are weaker combo decks than Twin and I'm aware of it, but I'd like to give it a try since people don't see 'infinite creatures' as a threat now with Twin out of the meta. Kiki-Jiki isn't a real threat by himself, just a good additional way to win or take a bolt before you try your actual Guard / Mastery combo :)
May 10, 2016 9:16 a.m.
if by "twin-like" you mean "combo", and i think you do because you just referenced melira/anafenza + persist, that deck just won an SCG modern open and put 3 decks in the top 8 and is considered one of the best decks in modern.
May 10, 2016 9:45 a.m.
I run a Midnight Guard Combo deck if you want to see how it does. I've yet to lose a game out of the 4 that I've played so far. Modern Selesnya Combos
May 10, 2016 9:47 a.m.
So...
I'm curious if you're paying attention to the meta because here is the number one deck in Modern right now... which is the Melira, Sylvok Outcast combo you were just mentioning, just with a slightly different set of cards.
And Kiki-Chord, a deck made popular by Jeff Hoogland, is also a modern deck, that isn't overwhelmingly popular but is played by a notable number of people. It utilizes Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker + Restoration Angel .
And while Midnight Guard and Village Bell-Ringer are nifty cards for manipulating these combos, they ultimately just aren't strong enough for a Modern environment. I could maybe see a deck with Bell Ringer but Resto is just stronger as a 3/4 with flying that can blink any creature you control, manipulating ETB value like Kiki-Chord does. Essentially outside of her combo value she can be used as a beat stick and my Kiki-Chord friend has beaten me to death with her plenty of times in long grinds.
Midnight Guard dies to Lightning Bolt. By modern general consensus that makes it bad. Not that I agree with that ideal, but its a strong argument. And the fact that Elemental Mastery gives you 1/1s isn't that fantastic either. Zealous Persecution, Orzhov Pontiff, Virulent Plague. The tokens are easily preventable.
I would be interested to see a Village Bell-Ringer combo so more power to you if you can build one that's semi competitive.
May 10, 2016 9:48 a.m.
Gidgetimer says... #7
Melira/Anafenza/Persist was already build a while ago. It was called "Podless Pod" or "Collected Abzan". Apparently it didn't fair well.
Kiki-Jiki was in twin at 1-2 of in some lists. Running just him is running the same deck with less consistency.
Midnight Guard doesn't have flash so you are playing him out, allowing your opponent the opportunity to remove him at sorcery speed while you are tapped down, and adding a third color to an already color intensive deck.
So those are the reasons for those specific decklists not having been made. The inclusion of Podless Pod in your list of possibilities makes me think that you are asking about combo decks in general instead of specifically an infinite creature loop. Living End and Scapeshift (both Cryptic Shift and Titan Shift) are the decks filling the combo role in Modern at the moment. It is a bit sad that the worst two of five combo decks that were modern legal two and a half years ago are all we have left. It seems like WotC doesn't like consistent combo though. Apparently having to plan ahead and not tap out every turn is not something they want to encourage in Modern.
May 10, 2016 10:04 a.m.
WizardOfTheNorthernCoast says... #8
Good point on Mastery's tokens TMBRLZ. Didn't actually considered that.
I am a modern player (let go off standard for financial reasons + interested in a wider card pool with more varied interactions), and it's been 3 years now. So I am aware that players use Kiki-Jiki and resto as a combo (not very popular indeed) or the good ol' Melira 'Toolbox' deck.
However the Melira combo is more focused on infinite lifegain OR direct damage (hello Redcap) rather than infinite creatures, which means if you're not playing mill or infect you can pack up your stuff and go for the next round :)
What I am suggesting here is to try and include those other pieces (Station - Guard - Bell-Ringer - Mastery) in the already existing decks as additional threats.
The Ligthning Bolt argument isn't really important to me anymore. I mean it's still a great spell, hear me out. But as a Jeskai Flash player (recently moved to Esper to see what I prefer) I can tell you it's not as good as it once was. Gurmag Angler and other Tasigur, the Golden Fang etc. have made Dismember the best removal spell to me right now (part of why I switched to Esper, too). So I know Midnight Guard dies to Bolt, but so does Kiki-Jiki. Yet you play the last one and not the first one.
If any of them can act as a bolt magnet for when you'll try and set up your next combo I'm quite ok with that :)
May 10, 2016 10:07 a.m.
Gidgetimer says... #9
Ok apparently I was wrong about Podless Pod. They just changed the name on me and I didn't notice.
May 10, 2016 10:08 a.m.
WizardOfTheNorthernCoast says... #11
Since you need Midnight Guard out anyways it doesn't change the fact that you go off T4. One mana less is relevant though.
I'm thinking about Temur. I'll brew something once I get home and will let you guys know!
May 10, 2016 10:35 a.m.
I've study which is the best away to play this combo: Midnight Guard + Elemental Mastery. So, if I want to use only red and white spells, without blue, I consider a B plan: Burn, to kill my opp with fire. But we need also something bigger than burn creatures, because Burn is so fast, and we have to play cheap mana spells. I change the decklist, now I play Boros Reckoner and Stormbreath Dragonto make pressure! I don't play 4x of Elemental Mastery because we don't want to see it 2x in hand, then is better more Heliod's Pilgrim, because we can play it everytime and have a draw advantage.
Take a look: ComBurn? ComBoros!
May 10, 2016 11:48 a.m.
WizardOfTheNorthernCoast says... #13
I like the versatility of the combo. Actually, adding Boros Reckoner to the deck can work quite well with Elemental Mastery. I think if you enchant a dude (Vexing Devil, Stormbreath Dragon or Thundermaw Hellkite or smthg), and play some copies of Blasphemous Act, you can easily reduce the amount of mana you'll have to pay to deal 13 damage to the opponent thx to Reckoner.
We're going down an even more clunky road right here and I really think I'd prefer to stick to the good old 'combo everywhere' dimension :)
May 10, 2016 3:18 p.m.
FineCashew9 says... #14
The problem with Guard/Mastery is that you have to tap out turns 3 and 4, as opposed to just turn 4.
May 10, 2016 3:44 p.m.
Well, the first thing to point out is that Kiki Chord is a successful Tier 2 deck that uses the Restoration Angel + Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker combo. So one of them has caught on. The rest haven't because the cards that compose it aren't good enough. Midnight Guard dies to Bolt at a horrific tempo loss (and doesn't have flash to make up for it like Pestermite did). Village Bell-Ringer is a poor imitation of Deceiver Exarch, and you're not running that shell now because it's a turn slower and much more 
-intensive.
kipahlord13 says... #2
I like this idea, but I'm worried that it might not be able to go off. The nice thing about Twin was that in U/R, you can build the combo in around a burn/control shell. With these combos, going Naya, as I would assume you are, it's a lot harder to ensure that your combo pieces won't be countered or removed at instant speed. If you (or someone else) would put together a list, with some or all of those combos, I'd be happy to playtest it online a bit, but I'm worried the combo won't be able to off often enough, especially since it seems that would be your only win-con.
May 10, 2016 9:03 a.m.