Finishing Touches to Mardu Pyromancer: 2 Questions
Modern Deck Help forum
Posted on July 21, 2018, 11:51 a.m. by PTsmitty
I am trying to finalize my list for my Mardu Pyromancer deck. I am currently have two dilemmas.
The first is that I am trying to figure out a budget substitute for Blackcleave Cliffs. I have seen recommendations for Dragonskull Summit, Smoldering Marsh, and Sulfurous Springs. I am currently thinking of running Summits since they do not have as strict of a clause as Marsh and will not hurt me like Springs. Of course, Marches are fetchable in a pinch, and my current build is running more basics since I am more budget oriented. Do you all think there is a benefit from running one of the other lands over the Summits? Should I stick to just 2 copies to prevent from being stuck with more than one in an opening hand? Should I also look into adding a 3rd Blood Crypt since I do not have the Cliffs?
The second one I have is a replacement for a 2nd Liliana of the Veil. I know that a second copy really helps make the deck run smoother, but I only have the one copy. I have seen one Lilly builds run 1x Manamorphose, but I feel like that card could be very ineffective at times. I am thinking about run x1 Lightning Helix instead. Would this be a good change? Should I run a second Dreadbore or Terminate instead?
This will be the first time I played the deck so I want to make sure I make the mana as efficient as possible without breaking my budget and that I have a good card distribution/setup. Any input on this situation would be much appreciated. Thanks
Thanks for the in-dept input. I will definitely be looking up Reid Duke's video on this deck. I have watched his videos before and he does do a good job explaining how decks are played and what to think about with each turn. I realize Cliffs are such a great card, but I just cannot afford them right now. Maybe I can get lucky and find some value cards lying around that I do not use that I could sell! HAHA
As for my local Meta, there is not a single deck type that everyone plays. I do not go to FNM often, but when I do there is usually a control deck or two, an elves deck, a tron deck, a burn deck or two, a affinity deck or two, a valakut deck, JUND, Abzan, and storm. I have also come across a boggles build, infect, and collected company decks from time to time, but they are not as common. So it is hard to say if my meta is strictly control or aggro. I would say my play style will be based on my opening hand. If I have more hand disruption I will start with that, but if I need to dig more then I will loot right away. That is one thing I like about this deck. I get the feel that you can adjust your play style as needed due to having various tools at your disposal. However, I do feel like preserving my life total would be important so fetch, shock, thoughtseize would probably not be my ideal start.....I guess I will start with the mana base I have now and adjust how I see fit once I start playing the deck.
You bringing up that this deck being mostly R/B is the one reason I was skeptical about adding Helix to it. While I think the life gain and drain could lead to a late game swing, but the thought of being suck with it in my hand without white mana is not too appealing. Should I go with a second Terminate and Dreadbore instead? I have often seen a 3rd Collective Brutality in the SB so should I just put that in the main then? Something I thought of is that the helix is something I could loot away if I do not have the white mana. Of course, that cannot be flashed back to be used later.
I am interested to hear what you have to say about my feedback. Thanks again!
July 21, 2018 3:48 p.m.
I agree with the comment about looking up Reid duke's list how ever my only two cents is that use pro's list as a guide. If you not looking to try and break the format, changing out things here and there to make the deck more enjoyable is the key. I play mardu mancer but it play a rakdos version. Yes I play lingering souls but that's it. No helix not paths anyway near it. As for your land debate yes go with the staples. Shock lands are worth it
July 21, 2018 4:33 p.m.
landofMordor says... #5
Check out Foreboding Ruins -- it gets you the T1 versatility of Blackcleave Cliffs with only a little less consistency. For Lili, you might also try Cunning Lethemancer. Best of luck, friend!
July 21, 2018 4:37 p.m.
I play my own version because my meta is mid range/tempo. So I play a slightly higher removal on my list. Don't get me wrong there's control and Tron ECT but my meta at my local spot is a little heavy with jund junk ect
Hope the link works if not cut and paste lol sorry
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/19-07-18-pyromancer/
July 21, 2018 4:39 p.m.
I do like the Foreboding Ruins suggestion. I will have to play test with that and see how it works out. The lethemancer is a good idea too if I want to stay with the discard theme for the deck.
I think I will try the single Lightning Helix for now and adjust as I find is needed after playing the deck a few times. Thanks for all of the input. This has helped a lot!
July 21, 2018 9:57 p.m.
landofMordor says... #9
Yeah, the Ruins work really well with shocks and other "Swamp Mountain" lands...if only the tango-lands like Smoldering Marsh weren't so terrible.
rockleemyhero, thanks very much! Those are words to warm the heart of the budget brewer, indeed!
I'm racking my brain for more Lili suggestions... Blightning could be okay as a 1-of, as could Gatekeeper of Malakir (if you could support BBB...). Unfortunately, unlike most Modern staples, there aren't many strictly-but-barely-worse versions of Planeswalkers, much less one of the most powerful 'walkers of all time. Ultimately, you just gotta playtest the phooey out of your deck and find what works!
An off-the-wall suggestion -- Nihil Spellbomb is super relevant against many Modern decks (Snap, Gurmag Angler, etc), and I've seen Reid Duke put one in the mainboard of Abzan midrange. I'll keep thinking, though! Good luck!
July 22, 2018 7:04 p.m.
rockleemyhero says... #10
Glad to hear :)
Agreed that Liliana is unreplacable. There’s a reason why Reid duke runs 4 and never goes below 2-3 after board. She wins the game when your ahead with her + and can often bring you back from behind with her -
July 22, 2018 7:26 p.m.
I agree with lilly. Have you and your opponent on top deck mode with you having an active lilly is usually a game ender with mardu pyromancer
July 22, 2018 7:31 p.m.
I have adjusted my build to reflect Reid Duke's version so hopefully that will go well for me. I was able to scrounge up enough cards for a sell order today that get me to about $94. So once that is processed I will probably buy a second Lilly :p I had another thought of buying 2x Surgical Extraction and a Liliana, the Last Hope for my sideboard, but I think the LoTV is the better choice right now. Unless you all feel other wise?
rockleemyhero says... #2
Hey dude! Ive been looking into pyromancer a lot too and have some answers for ya:
I would avoid smoldering marsh at all costs. The reasons why Blackcleave Cliffs is so powerful and a 4 of is because it etb's untapped on t1 and allows you to either bolt a bird or champion of parish, faithless looting to sculpt your hand, or more commonly, thoughtseize or inquisition someone without losing too much life. On the play, going fetch, shock, thoughtseize t1 can lose you the game if you find out they are an aggro deck.
So this being said, since there isn't much better than blackcleave, you have to make your decision on this: are you facing more aggro or control in your meta and how do you want the deck to play? If going t1 hand disruption is important to your playstyle, then you might need to bite the bullet and up the # of blood crypts and do something like adding 2 more blood crypts, 1 dragonskull summit, and 1 sulfurous springs. If you want to preserve your life total more and know you are in a humans/aggro heavy meta, consider 2 dragonskull summit, 1 sulfurous springs, and 1 blood crypt. But again, I would avoid smoldering marsh, I think its the worst in the bunch for what you are trying to do.
You may find that getting the replacement for the 2nd lilly can help your land crisis. If you go heavy into more shocks, lightning helix may be a reasonable choice. However, playing devil's advocate, mardu pyromancer really does not like to rely on using white mana because of blood moon. Looking at your list again, you are running 3 white sources which is an awful lot. These are the kind of issues that will unfortunately make your list more inconsistent and less functional. Mardu pryomancer has historically been a RB deck with a very light splash of white for SB cards and hardcasting lingering souls (which is often times means you aren't getting full value on your loots). For example, most of the top 8 lists run no white cards main except for lingering souls.
Anyways, take my advice with a grain of salt because I haven't been able to get my hands on the deck as much as I'd like. But Ive played against it enough to get a grip on how they like to play it. Also, check out Reid duke's video on it if you havent done so already - he's a fantastic pilot and I gained a ton of valuable insight by watching him play it and seeing first hand how good the blackcleave cliffs are. Good luck dude! :)
July 21, 2018 1:01 p.m.