Tooth & Nail Win Cons
Modern Deck Help forum
Posted on June 5, 2016, 5:13 p.m. by capriom85
I just put a Tooth and Nail deck together for Modern. Basically it looks tondo the following sequence of turns:
T2: Utopia Sprawl on 1st land. Forest, Overgrowth. Pass.
T3: fores, entwine Tooth and Nail and cast Xenagos, God of Revels and Emrakul, the Aeons Torn for the 30 point lethal swing.
I'd like to discuss other possible winning scenarios. I want colorless or RG creatures that can function as a one shot kill when paired with Xenagos. Atarka, World Render comes to mind right away. Are there any others worth exploring? I know Emrakul gets the slot because it's immune to almost everything, but just for discussion's sake...
ninjaclevs13 says... #4
I would also like to know this because I love the idea of the deck but it seems limited to me to have the only wincon of the deck be Tooth and Nail. If you draw Emmy or Xenny you just lost your primary wincon.
June 5, 2016 6:05 p.m.
wasianpower says... #5
June 5, 2016 6:09 p.m.
ducttapedeckbox, GOOD CALL!!! Also, the whole purpose of the deck is to use the above ramping scenario to play Tooth and Nail ASAP. It also runs Primeval Titan because, why not in a ramp and kill deck? Eternal Witness grabs our win cons back from the grave. Garruk Wildspeaker and Nissa, Worldwaker are more ramp and additional win cons. Primal Command is the other card in there for obvious uses in this deck. We grab Boseiju, Who Shelters All from the side to protect T&N from counters. We also grab Blood Moon to mess multi-color decks up. Spellskite protects our winning creature from getting whacked. 9/10 times we want Xenagos to not be a creature to avoid exile. The combo honestly isn't as fragile as it seems.
ninjaclevs13, not so. I can still play them just fine with T&N even if I draw into them.
June 5, 2016 6:16 p.m.
wasianpower, I like Avenger of Zendikar and Craterhoof Behemoth a lot! The Platinum Angel and Archetype of Endurance less so. That doesn't win us the game when we combo. Actually, we aren't even comboing we are just putting two creatures out that don't bring us closer to our specific game plan.
June 5, 2016 6:20 p.m.
wasianpower says... #9
Archetype of Endurance + Platinum Angel effectively wins you the game because it makes it so you can't lose unless your opponent is maindecking wraths, and even the decks that do that only have 1-2 of them.
June 5, 2016 6:37 p.m.
maiden77, that seems like a fun play.
wasianpower, I see that, but it doesn't exactly win us the game the turn it happens. It's not a combo in the sense that we want for the deck.
June 5, 2016 7:09 p.m.
KillDatBUG says... #11
The deck plays Emrakul and Xenagos because it's the absolute best win con you could play. It's not vulnerable to removal, and it insta-kills the opponent. Plus, Emrakul, the Aeons Torn can actually be cast eventually, which will pretty much guarantee the win.
Also guys, Tooth and Nail doesn't need to find two creatures and put those two creatures into play. It can find two creatures, put them into your hand, then put two creatures from your hand into play. If you have drawn the Emrakul, the Aeons Torn or the Xenagos, God of Revels, you can simply find some random creatures (Or nothing, since you don't have to entwine Tooth and Nail), then put Emrakul and Xenagos into play. It works like that because that's the way the card is worded; it's like two seperate spells combined into one, sort of like a Fuse card.
June 5, 2016 9 p.m.
I'm aware that's why Emrakul and Xenagos are in the deck. I said this was just for argument's sake. Also, playing the Emrakul hard is always a nice option. I tried to explain that it's ok to draw into one of them before...guess it didn't translate
June 5, 2016 9:40 p.m.
If you don't care about casting them without tooth and nail, you could sideboard Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker and Restoration Angel or mikeaus, the unhallowed and Triskelion to switch out wincons between matches. I do like the idea of having a blightsteel in the deck, even if it does die to path
June 6, 2016 12:35 a.m.
The deck wants to cast them with Tooth and Nail. I can pay 9 mama by turn 3. 15 is quite a bit more difficult. Hard casting them is an "in case my idea turns to jello" strategy.
June 6, 2016 5:30 a.m.
But xenagos is another early game dead draw that could kill you and a late game dead draw that you can't actually cast. Also, unlike literally everything else in the deck it does nothing on its own and can be heart wrenching to topdeck when all you need is just 1 power or toughness on board.
An emrakul on board is a win regardless of haste. What's the opponent realistically going to do? Back in the days of Twin I might have been sympathetic to the one turn clock of xenagos and emrakul but now that we're in a relatively combo light meta it's just not relevant. I have taken TaN to many large events now and not once have I lost a game between fetching an emrakul one turn and swinging with it the next.
The meta right now is full of midrange, creature and burn aggro, and things like tron. Wurmcoil engine and Hornet queen are auto wins against burn and creature aggro respectively. Midrange is beaten by emrakul and tron is beaten with Primal command stopping it ever playing lands.
Avenger is a worse version of hornet queen because you should be casting it off 3 to 4 lands and won't hit lands drops flawlessly. Craterhoof isn't that great because as I said before there are few examples where you need haste so it's just a wasted slot.
The specific game plan of tooth and nail is to either cast TaN for emrakul and win, or hardcast a diverse range of secondary threats that act as silver bullets against various strategies. It's a deck that can take advantage of the diverse range of 6 and 7 mana green and colorless threats alongside running an insta win card. Don't go all in on things that are too expensive to cast if your mana dorks eat a lightning bolt. Against many decks I've had my TaN or mana dork countered/killed and I'm so glad I run castable, resilient cards alongside them rather than uncastable win-more creatures.
Remember that often the deck requires a top deck to survive against most things that run lightning bolt and counterspells. There are many decks like this at the top of the meta. Don't increase the chance that that topdeck is bad for you. Run the bare minimum that requires TaN to be played and instead opt for things you can cast off a utopia sprawl instead in most cases. We all know the deck just wins if it hits that emrakul so build it for the situations where you DON'T hit the TaN and things dint go well. Avoid building it for the situations where everything is all fine and dandy.
June 6, 2016 5:57 a.m.
ninjaclevs13 says... #17
$300 T3 Emrakul. Seems fine.
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ChiefBell says... #2
I really hate Xenagos in the deck because it's a terrible top deck, and does nothing on its own. If you want to build the deck to be ultra resilient then you need to be ready for a variety of situations. Wurmcoil Engine against burn and stuff. Hornet Queen against zoo and affinity. Sylvan Primordial to ramp you more and destroy manlands etc. Garruk Wildspeaker to get around deck that Lightning Bolt your T1 Arbor Elf. Oh and don't forget Primal Command and Eternal Witness loops to stop your opponent playing lands for a few turns in a row while you get ahead.
June 5, 2016 5:22 p.m.