2 banned cards I don't get....
Modern forum
Posted on July 24, 2013, 6:51 p.m. by Bellock86
but I also don't play modern usually. Can someone please explain to me why Dread Return AND Golgari Grave-Troll are both banned? I remember a pretty crazy deck during original ravnica block that made good use of them but there are much scarier combos in modern that are harder to deal with.
MindAblaze says... #3
What does "too strong" even mean though when there are combo decks that can win on turn 2, and the meta expects to win by turn 4 or 5.
July 24, 2013 6:59 p.m.
It is about consistency. Infect can win on turn 2, with a god hand, but every other deck is turn 4, with a rare turn 3 kill.
As for Dredge. This is a ban I disagree with greatly. Without the Legacy quality of loot spells and cards like Cabal Therapy, Dredge really isn't so powerful. I think it is more Wizard realised pure dredge is very uninteractive, and wanted to ban it preemptivly so it doesn't become a deck in the format. In its place, we have Dredgevine, which is more of an aggro rock deck with Vengevine and Zombies.
I love Modern as a format and the fact it is cared for, but Dredge would be a nice unban. http://legitmtg.com/competitive/please-feed-the-grave-trolls/ is a nice article on it, I found.
July 24, 2013 7:17 p.m.
https://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/ld/144
http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/ld/155
Dredge too strong.
Seriously though, dredge as a deck was banned because of relatively consistent turn 3 wins. The combo decks that win on turn 2 are not consistent enough to merit banning, but dredge is very consistent. With that said, I would hear an argument that cards like Deathrite Shaman and Scavenging Ooze could allow them to unban these cards.
July 24, 2013 7:19 p.m.
@Graft ~ that's what I was thinking too. Those two cards alone hose anything gy related. Not to mention Bojuka Bog and Tormod's Crypt
@LeaPlath ~ I remember the dredge deck with Reya Dawnbringer , Bridge from Below , Leyline of the Void and Dread Return but that deffinitely wasn't a turn 2-3 win. But also as stated i'm not familiar with modern as a format or meta. That's just the only deck I remember that made dredge incredible but that was standard circa like 8 years ago.
July 24, 2013 7:42 p.m.
you know, reading those to links got me thinking. their reason for banning Umezawa's Jitte was because Stoneforge Mystic was legal at the time of banning. And that's according to them (link 1). Now that Stoneforge Mystic is banned, why is the jitte still banned as well?
July 24, 2013 11:56 p.m.
TurboFagoot says... #8
I'll ask you a question nemesis, you ever play against a Jit? lol
July 25, 2013 12:04 a.m.
haha, not really. Though I do know how strong it is. My play group has it in our power cube, and it kicks a gratuitous amount of ass. but it's not broken ( at least in that, haha). My point was, THAT was their reason for banning it, because mystic could both fetch and give it a body to be used on, so i guess super consistency. Now that mystic is out, what's their reason?
July 25, 2013 12:23 a.m.
Now that one I do know. Because jit still has too many ways to completely break it. That card is crazy powerful.
July 25, 2013 12:25 a.m.
They banned punishing fire for the same reason. Jitte just hits creature decks far too hard. If a player gets a jitte online, they can do a lot of damage. Most if not all trades become unfavourable. You can kill almost anything, and gain life.
July 25, 2013 4:22 a.m.
Talking about Modern bans. I'll try hard not to go into rant mode.
Jitte has been scare-banned from the beginning, but Punishing Fire actually got banned at the same time as one of the worst (of many bad) banning decisions in Modern, being Wild Nacatl . The theory was that other aggro decks would flourish if they made it so that Zoo wasn't the default best aggro deck, and Punishing Fire went in order to facilitate that.
All that happened was that the title of "only viable aggro deck" transferred from Zoo to Affinity. Aggro decks are still sorely lacking. Mystic or not, Jitte still kills little creature aggro dead, and as long as Wizards is struggling to get any semblance of aggro going in the format, it's not coming off the list. (In fact, I'd say that the chances of Jitte ever being unbanned is about zero.)
Dredge was among the decks that were pre-emptively banned when the format came into being, along with (real) Affinity and Faeries. All of these had proven to be too powerful and/or non-interactive in Legacy. While I would agree that Skullclamp Affinity and Faeries would be pretty dominant in Modern if they had all of their cards available, I do not at all agree that Dredge would be without Cabal Therapy and Ichorid .
At least that's the theory, lack of interaction. Why they would reprint and push (with new art) Bridge from Below in Modern Masters while ban-hammering Dredge into the ground as "too non-interactive" is beyond me.
July 25, 2013 8:34 a.m.
I wondered that myself Barandis why reprint a card whose primary deck has been hosed? I use Bridge from Below and Leyline of the Void in a mono black zombie deck that is technically modern legal but would probably get destroyed in actual modern play
TurboFagoot says... #2
Dredge too strong.
July 24, 2013 6:54 p.m.