4 Drops in Modern worthless?
Modern forum
Posted on March 19, 2014, 7:17 p.m. by AnagonLordofSnakes
Should any four drops that don't instantly end the game FOR EXAMPLE Splinter Twin or Birthing Pod be omitted from your list?
After reading many comments on how "your deck needs to win by t4" and "Phyrexian Obliterator sucks in modern" I want a community opinion.
I'm aware that playing modern competitive is anything but "casual mtg" but I feel that if you're building your deck right, playing a Hero of Bladehold on turn 4 should be an ok thing to do...
If they don't end the game there, they should do something pretty drastic. Cryptic Command , Supreme Verdict , and Ajani Vengeant for example all put down serious pressure or level the field right away.
If you mean more static cards, I always liked Thrun, the Last Troll .
March 19, 2014 7:21 p.m.
AnagonLordofSnakes says... #4
Comment #2 great answer, pretty much exactly what I was looking for.
March 19, 2014 7:25 p.m.
vampirelazarus says... #5
Birthing Pod doesn't end the game... it does find you the tools, but it's not going to end it that turn.
March 19, 2014 7:26 p.m.
AnagonLordofSnakes says... #7
vampirelazarus but it's pretty safe to say that if you don't counter or destroy Birthing Pod within let's say two turns after its played you will most def lose the game.
What's d&t stand for I'd like to see that deck
March 19, 2014 7:30 p.m.
megawurmple says... #8
It really depends on the deck it's in. Modern is called a turn 4 format because you either win on turn 4 or stop your opponent from doing so. In the latter decks, 4 mana is where the bombs really start to hit the table. 4-drops are only bad in aggro.
March 19, 2014 7:30 p.m.
Death and Taxes, which I love. Check out:
Death Rides a Pale Cow Playtest
Modern
SCORE: 24 | 26 COMMENTS | 2853 VIEWSas an example.
March 19, 2014 7:33 p.m.
AnagonLordofSnakes says... #12
Great answers from all. I now have a much better understanding of Modern. And I will check out death and taxes
March 19, 2014 7:33 p.m.
alpinefroggy says... #13
I dont think hero of bladehold is a good card outside of D&T. Most 4 mana things need to have high impact on the game in a meaningful and more powerful way than just creating a whole bunch of dudes like hero. She's slower than many things and there are better, more resiliant finishers.
Oh and your deck does not need to win by turn 4 or 5, it just needs to do something meaningful to keep strategies that want to do that from doing that. ex. UWR decks, Jund and sometimes pod.
March 19, 2014 8:27 p.m.
BTW, not to nitpick, but wouldn't Birthing Pod best be played on turn 3? Not turn 4?
March 19, 2014 10:20 p.m.
SwiftDeath says... #15
the other creature that saw a good amount of play in jund was Olivia Voldaren it was a threat that left unchecked could devastate your opponents board presence and was a great beater.
March 19, 2014 11:21 p.m.
She wasn't particularly good in jund and jund isnt a particularly good deck
March 19, 2014 11:43 p.m.
Dalektable says... #18
SpaderAce Yeah, was. She was run for a little while but now she isn't. Recent Jund deck Top 8
March 19, 2014 11:48 p.m.
Dalektable says... #19
xlaleclx Jund is good enough to warrant one of it's main components a ban, and this has happened in the past as well, see Bloodbraid Elf . There is no denying it is a good deck, it is basically just a good stuff deck and it still does very well. It makes about about 5% of the modern metagame.
March 19, 2014 11:50 p.m.
Jund used to be a good deck, now it's barely viable and is too slow for the metagame. It barely sees any play.
March 20, 2014 12:25 a.m.
And that "5% of the metagame" consist mostly of decks that were in tournaments pre-banning
March 20, 2014 12:26 a.m.
megawurmple says... #22
Admittedly Jund has taken a bit of a tumble recently, but I feel that it will see a resurgence in the future. After the banning of Bloodbraid Elf , Jund saw a decline in the number of people playing it but then recovered to become a huge portion of the meta again. I feel that once someone finds a way to get around the Deathrite Shaman ban, Jund will be back with a vengeance.
March 20, 2014 7:06 a.m.
KrosanTusker says... #23
Jund is viable and if it has become slower, it's becasue Jund is a different deck now. This article is a good one to read. Basically, Jund is becoming more and more controlling.
March 20, 2014 7:07 a.m.
AnagonLordofSnakes says... #24
I think it's ideal to play Birthing Pod on turn 2 actually. If you know it's not going to get blown up
March 20, 2014 3:16 p.m.
PlattBonnay says... #25
modern is such a fast format that 4 mana for one thing typically has to be a huge impact. I'm pretty sure that no one that plays Birthing Pod decks actually consider it a 4 drop, its usually a turn 2 or 3 play because of its phyrexian mana cost. I personally don't play very many cards with cmc 4, just cryptic (and even that has been cut) and a pair of Restoration Angel in my delver tempo deck.
March 20, 2014 8:25 p.m.
AnagonLordofSnakes says... #26
If it costs 4 mana it is a four drop, there is no arguing on that
March 21, 2014 12:05 a.m.
Well Birthing Pod will never be cast as a 4 drop (of course, maybe rare occasions), so it's illogical to compare it to something like Splinter Twin
March 21, 2014 12:27 a.m.
AnagonLordofSnakes says... #29
Birthing Pod is immune to Abrupt Decay , is countered by Chalice of the Void with 4 charge counters and will make you lose four life if revealed by Dark Confidant you will always pay for mana to cast it unless you reduce it's cost somehow. Both of your arguments are illogical
March 21, 2014 7:41 a.m.
We just mean it only costs 3 mana to cast because almost everyone is gonna pay 2 life rather than 1 more mana
March 21, 2014 10:34 a.m.
megawurmple says... #31
AnagonLordofSnakes They are referring to the fact that you only need to pay 3 mana (and 2 life) to cast Birthing Pod due to the Phyrexian mana in its mana cost.
March 21, 2014 12:33 p.m.
fluffybunnypants says... #34
It's been said before, but I will reiterate.
Modern is a turn 4 kill possible format. If your 4 or 5 drop does not instantly swing the game in your favor or win you the game outright, it better be a damn good card (Cryptic Command ).
March 21, 2014 1:33 p.m.
APPLE01DOJ says... #35
4 Drops are worth including. It all comes down to the deck and what u want to accomplish.
B/Gx runs 4x Liliana of the Veil and 6-7 targeted discard spells Inquisition of Kozilek and Thoughtseize to offset all the combo decks in the meta.
That being said, this is what your up against as far as some of the faster decks in the format.
Affinity, a full battlefield T2, possibly pumped depending whats on the field.Tron, T3 Karn Liberated Infect T2 Pump wins possible, T3 Pump win probable. Twin T3 Pestermite flashed in followed by T4 Splinter Twin Ad Nausem T4 Draws it's entire library and kill u Kiki Pod T4 combos out with Restoration Angel
March 21, 2014 2:59 p.m.
I think more accurately, modern is a turn 4 kill format for goldfishing. Basically, if your deck doesn't do anything meaningful until turn 4, an aggro or combo deck will consistently kill you.
March 21, 2014 5:52 p.m.
AnagonLordofSnakes says... #37
KingSorin I had to lookup what gold fishing meant but yes, your statement is pretty much GOLD.
March 21, 2014 5:59 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #38
I have heard a pro player say that in Modern, "If it costs 4 or more, it better win you the game."
The most obvious cards that follow the win-the-game part are Birthing Pod , Splinter Twin , Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker Ad Nauseam , Past in Flames and Scapeshift (the latter of which has become less powerful in Modern). However, there are some exceptions in Tron threats such as Karn Liberated and Wurmcoil Engine because in that deck, those cards basically cost three mana. The most prominent exceptions are Cryptic Command in basically any blue midrange/slow combo deck, as it is an extremely powerful card advantage/tempo play, and Ajani Vengeant and Elspeth, Knight-Errant out of Naya decks. Primeval Titan out of Amulet of Vigor combo decks and Scapeshift decks is also a good example. Restoration Angel is just so baller that you have to play it, even though it does cost you four mana, and so it breaks this rule as well.
In short, yes, playing Hero of Bladehold on turn 4 is a fine thing to do, so long as you're not dead yet. :)
xlaleclx says... #2
Phyrexian Obliterator does currently see play in modern in The Rock
March 19, 2014 7:20 p.m.