Abzan

Modern forum

Posted on July 22, 2020, 3:23 p.m. by dichia

I'm trying to make a deck based on Leonin Arbiter and Aven Mindcensor to get more value out of cards like Path to Exile, Ghost Quarter and Assassin's Trophy.

I wanted to make it a sort of taxes deck, but since I'm running a lot of noncreature spells, Thalia, Guardian of Thraben is not viable imo.

To keep it a little more control-oriented I was thinking about Tidehollow Sculler and Mana Tithe that fits the taxes archetype.

I'm looking for suggestions on other cards that could fit a deck like this. Possible win conditions, other cards that could benefit the effects of Leonin Arbiter and Aven Mindcensor or that synergize with them and other "taxing cards".

Thanks.

Omniscience_is_life says... #2

Interesting deck idea! Winds of Abandon is all I could find

July 22, 2020 3:35 p.m.

Unlife says... #3

It's not abzan, but I run a GW deck that is based around LD through Ghost Quarter and Field of Ruin, using Aven Mindcensor and Leonin Arbiter to keep people from searching. Mine's a bit more creature heavy but it may be a place to start.

GW Ghost Company

July 22, 2020 3:37 p.m.

dichia says... #4

Omniscience_is_life, Winds of Abandon looks good here, thanks.

Unlife, I'm not opposed to more creatures. Actually I'm looking for more cause I think I'm almost done with the noncreature spells. I just think Thalia, Guardian of Thraben is not good here, even though I see her in every taxes deck. I'll take a look at your deck and see if the creatures could fit. Thanks for helping.

DeinoStinkus, I was actually thinking about Field of Ruin, cause I think that it is generally better than Ghost Quarter. I don't know if it is here though, because Leonin Arbiter prevents me from searching the library as well unless I pay more mana.

The same goes for Wishclaw Talisman since Leonin Arbiter effect limit my options as well. If it works well for me, it does for my opponent too. If it doesn't work well for my opponent, it doesn't for me too. Am I right?

July 22, 2020 3:57 p.m.

TriusMalarky says... #5

You really should be heavily taxing everything your opp does, so TS and Tithe early are great ways to keep them down. Then you move to some more heavy land destruction, and eventually win with Rhino.

Or at least that's how I'd do it.

July 22, 2020 5 p.m.

dichia says... #6

TriusMalarky, Siege Rhino is great, I don't know why I didn't consider it. What do you think about Tidehollow Sculler? It could be another card like Thoughtseize against decks that doesn't use a lot of creatures. Too many removals could be a lot of dead cards against those kind of decks.

July 22, 2020 5:12 p.m.

Hjaltrohir says... #7

Scheming Symmetry perhaps? in the vein of Wishclaw Talisman

July 23, 2020 5:38 a.m.

aholder7 says... #8

It sounds like you're building an abzan hatebears list. some old cards i recall going in the GW version would include some value generating cards like Voice of Resurgence and Blade Splicer. they played Ghost Quarter and Field of Ruin along side Leonin Arbiter. the way they dealt with it was Aether Vial which could be put to good use here (also was a great way to use Flickerwisp on an opponents turn). BW versions also played eldrazi like Thought-Knot Seer which provided some solid bodies and hate packaged into one card.

July 23, 2020 9:45 a.m.

dichia says... #9

aholder7, Aether Vial could be interesting if played with cards like Flickerwisp and Restoration Angel, but I'd need more etb abilities. Siege Rhino could be one to start with.

July 23, 2020 10:03 a.m.

TriusMalarky says... #10

Tidehollow is def worth it if you go Vial. If you do go Vial, I'd recommend running Dryad Militant and a couple copies of another 1-drop creature, so that you can squeeze a little extra value out of Vial.

Going t1 Vial, t2 TS vial in Militant, t3 vial in Arbiter and do some removal, t4 cast siege rhino and vial in flickerwisp on their end step on rhino(or pre combat if they have a threat) sounds freaking amazing.

July 23, 2020 10:21 a.m.

dichia says... #11

aholder7 could you explain to me the difference between hatebears decks and death & taxes decks? Cause I looked some lists and they were really similar.

Also, I uploaded the first version of the deck. For now, I opted not to use Aether Vial cause it would take a lot of slots along with Flickerwisp, Dryad Militant, etc.

July 23, 2020 5:13 p.m.

aholder7 says... #12

d&t and hatebears are pretty similar. a while back, d&t was BW whereas hatebards was GW. hatebears had a heavier value creature focus and d&t was more synergistic. whether or not these distinctions still hold true or if anyone cares about those is up for debate. often times today they are used interchangeably

July 23, 2020 6 p.m.

jethstriker says... #13

Hatebears are nickname for creatures that have certain disruptive abilities while maintaining a reasonable mana cost. It got it's name from Grizzly Bears - the "bear" side, while the "hate" from its disruptive ability.

Death and Taxes is a deck arch type. It started as a legacy mono-white aggro-control deck that uses Aether Vial's "free mana" to drop Hatebears while using its own mana base (Wasteland , Rishadan Port) to disrupt oppossing mana base.

July 24, 2020 8:32 p.m.

dingusdingo says... #14

Cards to look at

Trinisphere - 3x of this will do everything you wanted Thalia to do, and more. This is the daddy of stax pieces, and it will frustrate tons of decks.

Collector Ouphe - Turn off equipment and tons of artifacts, 2/2 for , 2-3x and can easily go into your SB if you don't want to MB. Plays well alongside artifact based lock pieces like Static Orb or Trinisphere, look for triggered abilities or static abilities to build around the Ouphe

Gaddock Teeg - Shut off plenty of wincons and huge value cards, a nice 1-2x in this style of deck, and its a 2/2 for . This will usually turn off something in an opponent's deck, requires a bit of build around on your end.

Maralen of the Mornsong - Neat combo with Mindcensor/Arbiter and a great way to find your silver bullet hate cards you need, especially if you run them at 1x slots. You pretty much never want to play this without either Mindcensor or the Arbiter, so I'd look at 1-2x inclusion

Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite - Dunks on tons of utility dorks and creatures, and if you have a couple hatebears on the field you can punish their life total. Expensive to cast, solid choice at 1, maybe 2 for a deck.

Root Maze - This card pulls double duty against fetch lands, and will generally slow the game against any style of deck. A real nice card to look at for turn 1 plays, but multiples don't do anything for you. Good 3x include, but you will occasionally mulligan another hand when you see 2x of this.

Plow Under - Nasty card that can stall out your opponents for two turns. 2-3x if you want to grab this card, absolutely brutal alongside Trinisphere, best used alongside mana acceleration to hit this on turn 3 or 4.

Weathered Wayfarer - Can be a useful card in these types of builds if you want to investigate further into land based tech. Useful alongside the Ravnica bouncelands like Golgari Rot Farm to guarantee further usage. Useful with Manlands to guarantee beaters. Works well with Inventors' Fair if you have a decent amount of artifacts.

Torpor Orb - Everything has some flashy ETB stapled onto it for value these days. Backfires against Uro and the other titans (no sacrifice trigger), but great sideboard material. Peek Hushwing Gryff for a creature alternate.

Leyline of the Void - Nasty card that breaks tons of combos and tons of value

Hokori, Dust Drinker - Another alternate to Thalia that similarly attacks their mana base, tons of lands to get around it like Ravnica bouncelands or Lotus Field. Best at 1-2x, don't wish to see multiples in your hand ever.

Kataki, War's Wage - I don't recommend this guy as Collector Ouphe fills this niche wonderfully, but this is always an option if you have 2-3 equipments you want to run that the ouphe would shut off and don't mind paying the tax for them.

Authority of the Consuls - Works extremely well against aggro, slowing them and giving you small life gain to survive further. Multiples give multiple life triggers, so not totally wasted, good at 3x if you're interested.

Blind Obedience - Enters tapped is nice, the extort helps stabilize you to late game while getting in valuable life loss against your opponent. Multiples give multiple extort triggers, so you can go up to 4x rather easily if you'd like to.

Sun Titan - Strong etb and attack trigger that reassembles your hateful board state. Return trigger works great with Ghost Quarter. 6/6 works great for slapping opponents.

Time of Need - Nice toolbox card if you want to run 1-2x of a handful of legendary creatures for this style of build. Look at Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite, Hokori, Dust Drinker, Kataki, War's Wage, and Gaddock Teeg. Gives consistency if you're trying to go for a silver bullet kind of build.

Chord of Calling - Lets you pull Aven Mindcensor from your library at instant speed, also gives Mindcensor something to do on the battlefield if you can't swing with it. Once again, powerful in silver bullet style builds.

Grave Pact - Big board control, heavy color weight cost. Targets neither the player nor the creature, so useful against hexproof/shroud and other hyper evasive creatures. Multiples work fully, but you aren't keeping hands with multiples of this in it probably.

Luminarch Ascension - Control or prison style wincon. Lots of these cards slow the game or shut off an opponents plan to win. This card can use the extra turns to come online, and becomes a hyper mana efficient threat when it does. Works very well when playing under adverse mana conditions, like Hokori, Dust Drinker or Smallpox. Your Aven Mindcensor can gain extra usage on turn 4-7 by chump blocking to power this bad boy on. Best in decks that want to slow the game heavily.

Smallpox - Nasty board control, another way to imitate the hate effect Thalia has on an opposing mana base while also hitting creatures in play and forcing a discard. Works best with cards that allow you to mitigate your own downsides, such as Bloodghast, Gravecrawler, Flagstones of Trokair, Ramunap Excavator. Works well with anything that has madness, works well as fuel for delve too. One of these after playing Luminarch Ascension can give it the perfect amount of space to turn on.

Liliana of the Veil - Whole lot of board control, whole lot of hand hate.

Pithing Needle - CMC answer to any planeswalker and tons of juicy cards that players want to resolve.

Fiend Artisan - Toolbox enabler and nasty wincon packed into one. A good choice for silver bullet style builds. The +1/+1 for creatures in the graveyard shouldn't be underestimated, it keeps the card as a live draw later in the game or with no creatures on the field. The hybrid costs help in 3 color mana base

Beastmaster Ascension - Put those bears to work. Works well on stalled out boards, but your bears have to survive the swings to turn this on. I personally don't like this as much as Luminarch Ascension but it is worth looking at as an option, especially if you have a lot of flyers or evasive creatures. Aven Mindcensor flys :)

Tendershoot Dryad - Expensive to cast, but getting a token each upkeep adds up fast. You will hit the cities blessing rather fast, and then it doesn't take too many 3/3 tokens swinging to end a game.

July 28, 2020 4:50 a.m.

dichia says... #15

dingusdingo wow thanks man, a lot of good suggestions. I like many of those and I will consider them.

July 28, 2020 1:40 p.m.

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