Amass
Modern forum
Posted on May 26, 2021, 10:11 p.m. by Caran_Lyg
When you amass you get a zombie army token if you don’t already have a zombie army token. Both zombie and army are creature types. If that’s the case, if you have a changeling creature on the battlefield, can it be a target of an effect that makes you amass like Dreadhorde Invasion ? The ruling for amass says you can use a changeling creature to have multiple armies but I’m not sure if you can target the changeling for the amass effect.
wallisface says... #3
As i read it
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Amass wants to put a counter on an army. All changelings count as armies, so if they’re out, you’d put a counter on one of them instead of making that 0/0 army token (you wouldn’t even get the option to create the token, as you technically already have armies in play with the changelings)
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populate can create duplicates of tokens, but making a copy of a 0/0 token feels nigh-on pointless, as it’ll die immediately for having 0 toughness. Remember that populate copies a token, not any counters that may be on it.
May 26, 2021 10:40 p.m.
wallisface thank you. I thought it would survive until you’re able to put the counters. How about if you amass first to create the token then cast the changeling? Will that work?
May 26, 2021 11:24 p.m.
seshiro_of_the_orochi says... #5
Lets pretend you control Vedalken Orrery so you could cast creatures at instant speed. You still can't cast creatures in the middle of an effect's resolution, so once the token is created, the spell/ability is already resolving, so you can't do anything before the counters are put.
To clarify something else: Populate can copy tokens, but copying a token doesn't copy any counters. That's what wallisface meant when they said the token would die.
May 26, 2021 11:43 p.m.
seshiro_of_the_orochi What I meant for example I have a Dreadhorde Invasion , next turn’s upkeep it amassed, on my main phase I cast a changeling then for next turn’s upkeep the enchantment again amasses. I wasn’t even talking about casting a spell while an effect is resolving, I don’t know where you got what you’re saying.
May 27, 2021 12:33 a.m.
wallisface says... #7
So, populate copies a token, in this case the target is a 0/0 token. As soon as that token is created, it will die to state-based effects due to having 0 toughness. Army tokens don’t get counters put on them by default, that’s an additional effect of the Amass ability.
“Amassing first and then casting the changeling” will mean yes, you have a token and a creature in play. But now i’m confused how you were thinking populate works. Populate targets an existing token, so you already have to have a token in play to copy. Unless your changeling is buffing your token somehow, the copied one’ll still die.
I feel like we’re all getting confused here - it would make it easier if you described an example boardstate/turn and we can let you know why that does/doesn’t work
May 27, 2021 12:54 a.m.
Omniscience_is_life says... #8
I built a Marchesa, the Black Rose deck based around Amass and changelings (best way to get counters on things in RUB imo) but I haven't played around with it and populate.
Also--in the future, this sort of thing is best posted in the "Rules Q&A" at the top of the page (or in the drop-down list from the three lines on mobile). Thanks!
May 27, 2021 1:03 a.m.
plakjekaas says... #9
If Dreadhorde Invasion made an army in your upkeep and put a +1/+1 counter on it, and in your following main phase you cast a Realmwalker , next upkeep Dreadhorde Invasion makes you put a +1/+1 counter on an "army you control". At that point you can choose to put the counter on the token, or on the Realmwalker . Do note that the Realmwalker will not gain Lifelink when it has 6+ power, only Zombie Tokens will.
"Be the target of a card with populate" sounds confusing, because populate doesn't target, as you can see on Rootborn Defenses . When you cast a card with populate, you may choose to copy your army token. You will create a 0/0, which will die as a state-based action, and trigger Blood Artist , for example. If you'd actually want multiple army tokens for some reason, you're going to need a Glorious Anthem of sorts, and then cast your populate card.
May 27, 2021 1:10 a.m.
seshiro_of_the_orochi says... #10
Caran_Lyg: That is not what you asked for. To quote wallisface from post #7 on this thread:
“Amassing first and then casting the changeling” will mean yes, you have a token and a creature in play.
It seems we're missing something in the conversation. I'd love to hear a more specific example to give you an appropriate answer.
May 27, 2021 2:15 a.m.
plakjekaas actually got what I’m trying to say. He described exactly what I meant. I got the populate part because wallisface already explained that in his very first reply.
May 27, 2021 4:17 a.m.
Omniscience_is_life, thanks for letting me know. I wasn’t sure which forum to post it so I just put it under Modern.
Caran_Lyg says... #2
Oh and another thing, it’s a token, can it be a target of a card that has populate?
May 26, 2021 10:13 p.m.