Anyone think VEHICLES will make it to modern?
Modern forum
Posted on Oct. 6, 2016, 8:37 p.m. by Dreno33
Just curious on people's thoughts. Please give structured thoughts, not just a card name. I personally don't see any making it into any Tie1-1.5 decks, but just my opinion.
Thanks!
None of them are good enough to justify the amount of setup that goes into them becoming active more than once or twice per game.
October 6, 2016 8:46 p.m.
canterlotguardian says... #4
Most of them are too slow. Plus if you have enough power to crew a vehicle, why not just use those creatures to attack with? Would I rather crew a vehicle with Vexing Devil or attack with it?
October 6, 2016 8:47 p.m.
Sim_Will_CMcantfindmehopefully says... #5
Seriously though, if any vehicle appears in a top 8 at a GP or a PTQ (up to one time) I will feature a deck from everone in this forum (up the first 50 posters, excluding myself), because if that happens that's fucking hilarious and I will happily pay for the tokens in the event of a rogue deck running a vehicle seeing success.
October 6, 2016 8:55 p.m.
Simon_Williamson you probably mean a Modern GP or PTQ?
Also, Smuggler's Copter could maybe make it
October 6, 2016 8:58 p.m.
Sim_Will_CMcantfindmehopefully says... #7
Shit I meant modern! Context and whatnot!
Goody The Standard Meta is bad card draw for modern, and you might get three cards and six damage, if you can lock down the Copter, the creature crewing, and manage to get the whirly bird through Insectile Aberration.
October 6, 2016 9:08 p.m.
JaceArveduin says... #8
I've heard whisperings that the ol' Flying Looter might be okay in Affinity, sense it can be piloted by memnites and what-not, while allowing you to loot redundant cards away.
October 6, 2016 9:33 p.m.
Sim_Will_CMcantfindmehopefully says... #9
I can't see affinity needing it, affinity is just fast, why essentially sac your 5/5 for an 8/8 flier that loots for if it just slows down the pressure and your deck? Drawing, evasion, and slightly bigger stats is nice but affinity is a tight list already.
October 6, 2016 9:38 p.m.
AngelicCookies says... #10
Someone just won a box at a local Modern event with a GW Human/Hatebears list running a couple Smuggler's Copter
October 6, 2016 10:39 p.m.
Fleetwood-Mat says... #11
I think Wizards' main focus with new cards is limited and standard. They are doing a better job coming out with more Modern playable stuff, and also reprinting Modern staples in new standard sets, but for the most part, they're not so concerned about the Modern format outside of Modern Masters. Chandra, Torch of Defiance looks to be one of the strongest cases right now for a Modern playable card in Standard at the moment, Nahiri, the Harbinger also had a little bit of a push in the format... still, the fact is that Wizards doesn't print powerful staples like they used to (in standard), and the power level trend is a gradual decline over time and the release of new sets and cards. If there were a no doubter Modern playable mythic (or even rare) the price will go ridiculous right away, and it won't drop much during rotation (you should look at the trend of Liliana of the Veil. Those are the kinds of cards that (to be brutally honest), you will have to bite the bullet and pay the price for, or get lucky and open them out of a pack, because the Modern community will know right away which new cards make it into the format. Certain things are locked in stone in Modern, for instance; WotC will only ever print strictly worse functional reprints of Lightning Bolt, therefore there will never be a card that replaces Lightning Bolt in Jund, Burn or Scapeshift... Same thing with Tarmogoyf, Liliana of the Veil and AEther Vial. Some of these cards CAN be replaced (substituted), but they are the top picks because anything you use instead is going to be less effective overall.
October 7, 2016 12:14 a.m.
Postmortal_Pop says... #12
It's a little out of place here but I could totally see a few of them in Arcum Dagsson EDH builds.
As for modern, it feels way too slow. Unless someone created some fringe build that can pilot them for free.
October 7, 2016 2:10 a.m.
The thing is vehicles are basically hexproof as long as they're not attacking. They're incredibly hard to interact with, especially if their controller just holds extra creatures and doesn't over-extend.
I could see a deck like B/W Tokens playing Smuggler's Copter. And I'm pretty sure Slash Panther will never see play again because of Fleetwheel Cruiser.
Hopefully, will see some more Modern-playable vehicles in the next set. Anything with CMC less than 4 with more than 3 toughness will probably be a good candidate.
October 7, 2016 8:34 a.m.
Ohthenoises says... #14
So I have found that people keep saying that Copter is bad in affinity because, most times, their logic is "what 2 drop does it replace"
That's not the answer.
The truth is there's a 3 drop that can easily get dropped for copter. Etched Champion is slow. 3 mana can be a lot.
Yes, it has pro all colors. Yes, it's hard to remove. However it's 3 mana.This screams sideboard to me, always has.
For those saying that it's slow, consider this: Memnite, Inkmoth, Blinkmoth, Ravager, Skirge, and Overseer are essentially given haste with Copter. T1-T2 copter, then the following turn drop a ravager/skirge/overseer crew it immediately.
That's a 3/3 attacking on T2-3 in the air that loots to dig for platings.
Domo Arigato is my build.
October 7, 2016 9:11 a.m.
I believe Demolition Stomper is going to be a four of in every modern top 8 decklist for the next 30 years. It's so broken.
October 7, 2016 10:05 a.m.
Ohthenoises says... #16
Demolition Stomper + Lupine Prototype GG all, format's solved.
October 7, 2016 11:38 a.m.
Sim_Will_CMcantfindmehopefully says... #17
-Logician you're joking right? a 6 drop without haste or board effect? With bad evasion?
October 7, 2016 11:53 a.m.
averagenovice74 says... #18
Ohthenoises you also don't replace something that doesn't die to basically all types of targeting removal to something that forces you to loses tempo(crew) to attack just to get bolt'd or path'd. Also you have to crew in response to blocks which will ALWAYS lead to a 2-for-1 somehow either losing the copter, losing the creature you were crewing it with and lose parity in blocks. Vehicles are cute but they're not for modern. Way to slow and have too many variables with them that could lead to bad games.
October 7, 2016 12:36 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #19
If you are blocking with affinity you have already lost.....
I've played affinity for going on 5 years now.
Etched is slow.
You crew to attack with a creature you just played that turn.
People have been undervaluing copter on all fronts. People said that it would be terrible in standard too and look what's happening.
Also, etched has been benched before. It's nothing new. He's just a sideboard card now.
October 7, 2016 12:43 p.m. Edited.
I'm with Noises here, I think it's a viable replacement for Champion. Champ is amazing in many matchups, BUT it doesn't have the same grindy potential imo. I don't have experience piloting Robots, but from playing against it the champion does seem like the weakest (though not weak) link. Why shut it down before even testing?
October 7, 2016 12:52 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #21
Also, considering P/T
Etched is a 2/2 for 3 with pro colors (which can, although rarely, be turned off when a new affinity player plays it)
On the other hand copter is a 2/2 for 2 (taking into account crew) that essentially says "a 1/1 you control gains flying and haste" Topping that off you get the loot.
2 mana is the critical number. You can T1 2 mana plays, you CAN'T do that with Etched barring a double mox hand and that's highly unlikely.
Etched has also been seeing reduced play over the years. It was at 3-4x for a while when thoughtcast was being ran then it went to 2, then 0 during eldrazi (duh, devoid and colorless), then it popped back up to 2.
He's amazing and an allstar in some matchups. Jund, Abzan, both flavors of Nahiri. But in other matchups it's just a 2/2 with unblockable that comes down a little too slow.
October 7, 2016 12:58 p.m.
i think that the copter is a fine play in decks like affinity who are maybe having trouble getting the value out of their champions. vehicles sort of fall under the same boat as equipments if you think about it. copter is just an equipment that gives haste flying and loot on attack or block to equipped creature. but it doesn't give a flat stat boost like most equipment. it makes it a 3/3 regardless of starting size. in exchange for never increasing the power of your bigger creatures they are free to 'equip'. etc. but you don't see a lot of equipment (barring cranial plating) in most top 8 decks. so under that logic i don't see them becoming popular as a whole. i think copter and possibly another vehicles that we all somehow missed on first look through, will prove to be exceptions rather than the rule and make it into niche spots of their respective decks.
October 7, 2016 4:35 p.m.
SwaggyMcSwagglepants says... #23
I've definitely heard pros say that Smugglers Copter is good in certain metas. If Wizards is trying to lean modern to a bit more of a control side, then it's better than cards like Master of Etherium.
Sky sovereign could see play in non-red Tron builds just as good colorless removal. If they run the eldrazi build, then crewing it seems solid. So Skysovereign screams mono-blue Tron to me.
October 7, 2016 6:01 p.m.
Fleetwood-Mat says... #24
Smuggler's Copter would be a really good card to go with Bitterblossom in modern. Main reason being that you can use the token you're not attacking with to crew the copter.
October 7, 2016 6:48 p.m.
JaceArveduin says... #25
Huh, I don't play Faeries, but I wonder if it'd be good there, since they've got a lot of tiny creatures they don't want to risk to combat and bitterblossom. I'm sure they'd like the looting as well.
October 7, 2016 7:17 p.m.
SwaggyMcSwagglepants says... #26
Smuggler's Copter seems sick in Faeries. Good point.
I mean, in general, aggro decks that want filtering might play copter.
October 7, 2016 10:17 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #27
I'm more of the mindset not to completely throw out a card because the deck(s) that they go in are "solved"
I mean taking affinity again as an example, it's had to adapt quite a lot from it's first iterations.
I say brew away.
I doubt the skyship would fly (heh) in U tron mainly due to the crew cost. U Tron typically doesn't have the creatures to crew into it aside from maybe a Wurmcoil token. Possibly the Thought-Knot Seer builds but even then there are only usually 2-3 of them and they don't usually live long.
The ETB trigger can't be ignored but for 5 mana that's a pretty steep price to pay for lighting bolt. (Spatial Contortion essentially fills the same role) It also is 1 too low for Treasure Mage builds.
Even my thopter sword build would probably pass. (Inventor's Fair however, but that's a discussion for another thread.)
October 7, 2016 10:38 p.m.
Simon_Williamson Yes. I was trolling. My name on this site should be synonymous with trolling at this point. Just look at the decks on my page.
October 8, 2016 9:25 a.m.
Sim_Will_CMcantfindmehopefully says... #29
-Logician Okay, sorry. I saw someone who genuinely thought that the green gear hulk would be played in infect. Stupidity knows no bounds.
October 8, 2016 9:34 a.m.
Simon_Williamson yeah that gearhulk is nice, but not that nice lol. That's funny how obliviously some people evaluate cards.
October 8, 2016 3:19 p.m.
Few modern decks run enough creatures to consistently pilot vehicles. Those that do are things like Affinity and Zooicide that don't have room for the Copter or can afford its casting cost. On top of that, the presence of Affinity means that everyone has some amount of artifact hate in their sideboard that will splash as vehicle hate if needed.
Maybe someone will brew up something brand new that isn't a pile of FNM jank, but I don't see vehicles making a Modern splash.
October 13, 2016 3:42 p.m.
Fleetwood-Mat says... #32
you know, I think from Kaladesh, vehicles may not make it to modern... Ultimately, I think one of the best candidates to potentially get to modern is Bomat Courier. It can be good in burn, it can be good in tempo, it's just an impressive 1 drop in my opinion.
Sim_Will_CMcantfindmehopefully says... #2
I can't see it. It requires a board state, is pretty slow, susceptible to two types of removal, and is just low impact. I doubt these will even be one ofs. I have been wrong before but I would bet money that not 1 vehicle card will be in any of the top 3 decks within the next year.
October 6, 2016 8:45 p.m.