BG Rock Thread
Modern forum
Posted on Jan. 11, 2016, 10:07 p.m. by APPLE01DOJ
Let's talk about all things 
Attrition. If you regularly participate in this thread feel free to post your decks in here as often as you want.
If you're new to modern and have only heard of Abzan and Jund, Rock is essentially the core of both those decks. Creature consist of Dark Confidant, Scavenging Ooze, Tarmogoyf, and Treetop Village. Save Tarmogoyf each offers an additional utility beyond just attacking. Rock has been dubbed "The Answer Deck" because its removal package is capable of answering practically everything. Abrupt Decay Maelstrom Pulse and Liliana of the Veil, one of the strongest planeswalkers in modern. Beyond removal you have an initial disruption package the opponent must play through. Inquisition of Kozilek and Thoughtseize.
So for the first topic of discussion, Which do you feel is stronger, with or without Phyrexian Obliterator?
How about the addition of Bitterblossom?
incarceratedGeneticist says... #2
How's your matchup against Burn and Affinity?
March 3, 2016 1:34 p.m.
APPLE01DOJ says... #3
Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet vs Tasigur, the Golden Fang???
Which is better in the flex spot?
Asking in general, but here is the build in question: Soft Stabs [Umbra]
Could also drop a Bitterblossom for it but I get a lot of mileage out of Bitterblossom.
Any one notice that Nissa, Voice of Zendikar is starting to climb back up in price :)
I thought she would be a 40$ card by now ...but you know, Eldrazi happened.
March 3, 2016 1:58 p.m.
Sceadugenga says... #4
Pre-board both are slightly unfavored, but Affinity doesn't typically run a lot of artifact hate, and burn typically can't fight through the recursion of the lifegain I board in.
For Burn, I use a pair of Sun Droplet plus the MB scooze, and a Defense Grid to limit Burn's flexibility. 2-3 Chalice of the Void is better, but I'm not sure it's worth the nonbo with the Executioner's Capsule and discard suite. The additional upside to Sun Droplet is that it's relevant against other kinds of aggro decks. This deck stalls out which lets me get back all the damage my opponents deal me, so I only really lose to Bob flips, which I've also tried to mitigate with X cost artifacts. There is also the singleton Wurmcoil Engine as late game life gain.
Re: Affinity, I'm still fiddling with the composition of the removal suite since it's currently weak to Vault Skirge (neither Go for the Throat nor Executioner's Capsule can target it) which leaves me with the MB Engineered Explosives and three Abrupt Decay to deal with that particular scenario without getting Thopter tokens from Hangarback involved. Post-board I don't have as much dedicated hate, instead relying on the switch to the LoamPox plan. Affinity is in its strongest position if it gets to optimally use 2 mana on turn 1 or 3 mana on turn 2. Pox really helps keep that from happening while dealing with a lot of Affinity's threats. Since that deck can lose to bad topdecks more often than others, the strategy seems reasonable and hasn't yet caused serious problems.
March 3, 2016 2:01 p.m.
APPLE01DOJ says... #5
Spellskite is good vs both Affinity & Burn.
I run 3x Creeping Corrosion for Affinity specifically but it also hits 8Rack, Lantern Control, pretty hard. Only side in a singleton vs Tron, but it can be a life saver.
March 3, 2016 2:04 p.m.
Sceadugenga says... #6
Spellskite is an obvious improvement :D. I'm silly for not having thought of that. The downside of dedicating 6 SB cards to the LoamPox plan is I don't have a lot of other room for hosers, instead relying on that to answer a wide range of things. I could conceivably go down to 2 of each rather than 3 of each.
March 3, 2016 2:57 p.m.
I'm really likeing the Idea of Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet. Looks solid as a late-game finisher for something more along the lines of Jund, since it has more stock removal a-la Terminate
March 3, 2016 4:15 p.m.
Also, inevitability as opposed to card advantage gets games won
March 3, 2016 4:16 p.m.
incarceratedGeneticist says... #9
In regards to Kalitas vs Tasigur, I'd prefer Kalitas in a deck with a playset of Confidants as well as other lifeloss like Bitterblossom. I'm assuming you're playing the Marsh Flats mainly to make Tasigur better - I personally prefer the better manabase. I think you're running enough removal for Kalitas to be good. The main difference is that Tasigur comes down earlier and is initially bigger, but Kalitas offers lifelink as well as a flexible ability that allows him to go wide with tokens or tall with +1/+1 counters. I honestly think Kalitas is amazing but sometimes you really need Tasigur's extra power and toughness on turn 3 or whatever.
March 3, 2016 10:14 p.m.
Sceadugenga says... #10
I usually view Tasigur as a card advantage engine, so I've obviously not been playing him to his fullest potential. I haven't ever played the Grixis turn 2 Tasigur build, so that may be part of why I haven't seen him as an aggresive piece. Based on how I'd play Tasigur and Kalitas, I think the best deck using these guys accomodates 1 of each, since they compliment each other so well.
With Tasigur, I'm entirely content to let him block while I swing with whatever other body I have so I can sit back and draw cards--to me, he immediatley puts you in the position of "answer me if you can, if not I'm just going to sit here and accrue advantage." Kalitas is a perfect partner for that kind of position, because the more removal spells you draw/recur, the more advantage he nets you.
March 3, 2016 11:07 p.m.
incarceratedGeneticist says... #11
I probably underestimate Tasigur's card advantage ability. I think I too am guilty of not using him to his fullest potential. I just find Kalitas actually amazing - he lifelinks, makes tokens and gets +1/+1 counters, plus he exiles your opponent's creatures. Not to mention the stuff he can do in a deck that actually runs Vampires and Zombies.
March 3, 2016 11:24 p.m.
I prefer Kalitas. Tasigur as a card advantage engine is rather poor. Holding up 4 mana for his activated ability will hurt more than it will help, and if you're in a position where it's viable, you've probably already lost. At least in Rock.
March 3, 2016 11:34 p.m.
APPLE01DOJ says... #13
Marsh Flats are for a better mana base. They were there before Tasigur and will be after. Sounds like I need to cut Taz for the Traitor.
March 3, 2016 11:51 p.m. Edited.
APPLE01DOJ says... #14
The reason Marsh Flats is better than something like Woodland Cemetery is it gives you more versatile control over your mana while allowing you to run fewer copies of things like Overgrown Tomb. You don't have to rely on lucky draws.
March 4, 2016 1:02 a.m.
Sceadugenga says... #16
The glissa list went 2-1, 1-2, 1-2 against three burn decks this FNM. Partly variance, partly too much SB space devoted to LoamPox. I'll have to decide if the transfomrative SB is worth it.
March 4, 2016 10:14 p.m.
Sceadugenga says... #17
For those still interested in working with Glissa, the Traitor, mtgtop8 has a GP trial first place finisher using a Glissa Jund build. My work with Glissa Rock led me to making some changes to the numbers of the cards, but we ended up to a very similar maindeck as far as the innovations are concerned. My deck goes heavier on the Glissa plan.
March 10, 2016 4:07 p.m.
I feel like Arcbound Ravager would work well in a glissa build.
March 10, 2016 4:23 p.m.
Sceadugenga says... #20
Scouty I think it would, but I also think that would need to be a lot closer to a variant of affinity rather than a variant of rock to be worthwhile.
March 11, 2016 12:46 a.m.
Not necessarily, Sceadugenga. It wouldn't have everything Affinity would have, it'd just have a +1/+1 engine for whenever glissa kills a creature a-la ravager sacrificing itself, giving it's counters to glissa or something, and returning to the battlefield immediately.
March 11, 2016 9:23 a.m.
Sceadugenga says... #22
The only thing with that use is that the Modular trigger can only put counters on other artifact creatures, which Glissa is not. At least with experiments so far, an Eggy subtheme with Executioner's Capusle and Pyrite Spellbomb seems more useful than artifact creatures, and going with Ink or Blink doesn't seem possible or good in a deck with access to Raging Ravine. Not trying to dismiss the idea because i think it has merit, it just wouldn't really gel with the established BG/x creature suite.
March 11, 2016 12:14 p.m.
APPLE01DOJ says... #23
How does everyone feel about Thing in the Ice in a BG/x suite? I'm talking just TITI and Spellskite, not all in BUG.
March 11, 2016 3:08 p.m.
Sceadugenga says... #24
Sounds like BUG Obliterator would be the best way to direct the deck. Think Obliterator is doable in 2.5 colors?
March 11, 2016 3:09 p.m.
Sceadugenga says... #25
Sorry for the double post, but, Obliterator aside, there's a decent argument FOR full in BUG horrors since Echoing Truth et al also solve your Hunted Horror problem and your "Oh, you flipped a TITI? Vapor Snag" problem.
March 11, 2016 3:16 p.m.
APPLE01DOJ says... #26
I'm not a fan of Hunted Horror at all. The tokens are too difficult to deal with consistently.
As for TITI Obliterator you only really need 1 Green source and 1 Blue source for things to run smoothly. We'd loose Treetop Village but Creeping Tar Pit and Hissing Quagmire are an acceptable replacement. Probably have to swap some Twilight Mires for Sunken Ruins but it's totally doable.
You get Darkslick Shores if you go all in. Darkslick Shores is probably going to rise in price btw.
March 11, 2016 3:32 p.m.
APPLE01DOJ I have 4 Darkslick already. Using them in Modern UB Tezzerator. Without significant testing I can't say Hunted Horror is bad. You can Vapor Snag or Echoing Truth the tokens. TITI Removes them entirely, and blocks them btw with 0/4 body. I'm a huge fan of BUG with TITI. Looks like I need to start playtesting.
March 11, 2016 4:24 p.m. Edited.
APPLE01DOJ says... #28
What does everyone think of these lists?
http://www.mtgdecks.net/decks/view/610875
http://www.mtgdecks.net/decks/view/607196
April 13, 2016 7:02 p.m. Edited.
APPLE01DOJ You're better than this! (unless your mobile)
Link for the lazy
I like the second much more. It could use some work though.
April 13, 2016 7:05 p.m. Edited.
I like the creature list of 1 a lot more than 2, but the spells, mana base, and sideboard of 2 is pretty awesome. Nighthawk is interesting but I'm not sure how viable it is.
April 13, 2016 8:32 p.m.
See, I'd rather play 2 Kalitas, 4 Goyf, 4 Bob and 2 Scooze. Then all the rest spells.
April 13, 2016 8:33 p.m.
I'd personally not want to run Kalitas at all. Im not super huge on him.
Then again, I recently switched back to Junk, so I'm not sure If Im qualified to speak in this thread anymore
April 13, 2016 8:34 p.m.
Kalitas is pretty sweet, and I may even give him a chance, but I just personally don't like playing 4-drops. It's why I've never played Siege Rhino, Olivia, or Huntmaster.
April 13, 2016 8:35 p.m.
vault That's just...weird. lol 4 drops are my favorite. So much power.
April 13, 2016 8:40 p.m.
Sceadugenga says... #36
Has anyone tried Gitrog bg Loam Pox? Can we play 5 drops in this Modern?
April 14, 2016 11:20 a.m.
I don't even like playing 4 drops, I seriously doubt 5 drops have a place in Modern anywhere, much less in BG Rock.
April 14, 2016 11:41 a.m.
Sceadugenga says... #38
I haven't brewed or tested, but in theory if you're running a playset of loampox I can see the games accomodating 1-2 monsters in the 75. I'm probably infected with brewers optimism though
April 14, 2016 12:26 p.m.
APPLE01DOJ says... #39
I don't really think so. I mean why durdle around until turn 5 or so just to get your engine online...
I'll admit it has some nice synergies with fetches, Ghost Quarters, and Crucible of Worlds but I'm still not sold.
April 14, 2016 12:46 p.m. Edited.
yumadkid The only thing I can think of is trying 1 for 1 removal deck until you T5 Gitrog and Combo with Dakmor Salvage, Life from the Loam, etc. Not sure what the win con would be though...
Sceadugenga says... #1
I agree, and that's what initially led me to the build style, plus First Strike/Deathtouch AND smallpox spells death for most eldrazi decks. Based on results so far I think that Hangarback may have made Glissa Rock a viable Modern 1.5 archetype, but I don't have nearly enough testing data yet.
March 3, 2016 2:05 a.m.