B/R Update Predictions?
Modern forum
Posted on July 11, 2015, 8:05 p.m. by DrFunk27
I think Summer Bloom gets banned, nerfing Bloom Titan but still keeping it relevant. I don't think anything is unbanned but I'd love to see Umezawa's Jitte come off.
canterlotguardian says... #3
"nerfing Bloom Titan but still keeping it relevant"
I wholeheartedly disagree. Summer Bloom is the entire linchpin of why BT can go off so easily. sure, you can still technically get Prime Time out, but by the time you do so by regular means, the other deck has either combo'd off already or beaten/burned you down to the ground.
July 11, 2015 8:13 p.m.
I honestly think Bloodbraid Elf might be unbanned. It's arguably the best 4 drop Jund would have and even though Jund is popular right now, it hasn't done very well relative to other tier 1 decks. If BBE was unbanned I feel it would put Jund in a much better spot.
July 11, 2015 8:38 p.m.
canterlotguardian says... #5
Lifa that's the reason why BBE was banned to begin with, was because Jund was absolutely dominating the format (kind of like how Abzan is doing right now). if BBE came back, things would just go back to the way they were before, and they'd probably just ban it again.
July 11, 2015 8:43 p.m.
CanadianShinobi says... #6
Lawls. Unban the Jitte? Not a chance. Also, why would they ban Summer Bloom? Bloom Titan is hardly an oppressive deck. The deck just dies to Blood Moon post board anyway.
I too support the unbanning of Dig Through Time because it was a ban that should never have happened and set a terrible precedent. It was a ban solely based around speculation, which is utterly absurd and irresponsible.
Sadly, I don't think anything will change.
July 11, 2015 8:49 p.m.
lemmingllama says... #8
If anything is going to change, it will be the unbanning of Sword of the Meek. However, that is just me getting my hopes up thinking that control could be a real thing.
July 11, 2015 9:09 p.m.
Wizard_of_the_Broke says... #9
I'd love to see Sword of the Meek unbanned, but given the number of decks running token producers already, I think it's highly unlikely. And I also agree it'd be nice to see the reversal on Dig Through Time, but it would probably make UR Twin too good. I also don't get your reasoning behind Summer Bloom being banned. Bloom Titan just isn't that big.
July 11, 2015 9:31 p.m.
NoPantsParade says... #10
I wouldn't mind them unbanning BBE, but that's coming from a Jund player. What do you think about Cloudpost? I think it has potential but it might push Tron over the top, replacing the Urzatron lands and just playing 12 Post.
July 11, 2015 9:48 p.m.
Nothing changes.
-Cloudpost puts Tron over the top.
-You guys don't get it, Bloodbraid Elf is too strong for Modern, would push Jund back to where it was.
-Dig Through Time is really too much like TC to Wizards, they probably want to play it safe.
-Shut up about control being dead, we have Grixis control as a thing. Full tap-go control just isn't as possible in this format with such a slow clock.
July 11, 2015 10:08 p.m.
Summer Bloom breaks the turn 4 win rule. That's why I posted it
July 11, 2015 10:42 p.m.
JexInfinite says... #14
I would like to see Ancestral Vision unbanned because it's not a very powerful card. The effect is good, sure, but you need to wait a long time before it happens, and at that point, you're probably dead against most T1 decks, or in a position where it doesn't matter.
I would also like to see Dig unbanned on the same grounds that CanadianShinobi suggested: it was not a justified ban at all, and a speculative ban means we should have speculative unbans. Dig was not oppressive when they banned it; Pod was. Dig should be speculatively unbanned to see whether it gets out of control. If it does, it can be banned in 3 months. If it's not as OP as Wizards said, then go ahead and leave it.
Knowing Wizards, they hate change, so nothing will change.
July 11, 2015 10:43 p.m.
pumpkinwavy says... #15
My official prediction - no changes.
There's nothing ban-worthy at the moment and, while Sword of the Meek could be safely unbanned, its not going to happen. Neither is Dig Through Time, Bloodbraid Elf, Cloudpost, or Skullclamp, because these are not safe unbans.
July 11, 2015 10:53 p.m.
CanadianShinobi says... #16
NateJH: "Shut up about control being dead, we have Grixis control as a thing."
First and foremost, tone. I would personally appreciate it if you addressed myself and other Control players in a respectful manner. We're here to have a civil discussion and you telling people to "shut up" is detrimental to this.
Secondly, facts. Currently in Modern there is no such thing as a Control deck. There is a Grixis Delver deck, which is a tempo deck, and Grixis variations of Twin, which is a combo deck, but there is no Control deck. Patrick Chapin's latest showing does not negate this fact within the overall metagame.
Control players who desire a legitimate Control deck should not be told to shut up, especially in a metagame teeming with nothing but aggro, combo and midrange decks. In many ways Control players are marginalized as their favourite style of play (at least competitively) is by and large not a viable one. Naturally, such an environment can lead to frustration. It is made even more frustrating when such frustrations are blatantly dismissed by players. My favourite complaint is when people tell me Control is "unfair".
Thirdly, Dig Through Time is not Treasure Cruise to even imply such a thing is somewhat ignorant. Wizards made a foolhardy decision to ban a card based upon pure speculation. Cruise was banned largely because it was showing up everywhere because a single 
mana is very easy to acquire in a format filled with fetches and shock lands. But even I will contest that Cruise was being played for the sheer enjoyment of having something new and exciting in the format after the disaster of Theros. I further contend that Wizards should have shown patience and restraint before banning Cruise and Dig because the metagame was not fully developed with the implementation of two powerful, yet fundamentally different cards.
DrFunk27 by your reasoning we should ban pieces of Affinity and Burn as those decks can also, at times, break the Turn 4 rule. That rule is really a guideline, and Titan Bloom cannot consistently win enough to warrant a ban. Furthermore, as it has been stated, Summer Bloom is the linchpin of the deck and banning it is akin to banning Birthing Pod ie: the destruction of an entire archetype.
July 11, 2015 11:04 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #17
Cloudpost wouldn't make Tron overpowered, by the way. It would create its own archetype.
Pls unban Dig, need good cards for deck.
July 11, 2015 11:13 p.m.
CanadianShinobi, not trying to disrespect or anything cause I agree with some of your points such as the respectful discussion but on the other hand chapin's grixis control deck is very different from delver and twin and if you value mtgsalvation's modern forums it is considered tier 1 now. The deck finished 9th in Charlotte and top 8ed in Copenhagen.
Just had to say something because I don't like when grixis delve/control is equated to delver's tempo because they just run so differently. That deck is quite solidly a control deck and a blast to play. Should there be more control decks? Absolutely but at least there is legitimately one.
July 11, 2015 11:26 p.m.
To return to topic while I'd love DTT to be unbanned it won't happen, and I'd love to see Cloudpost unbanned for all the stupid decks it could create but that won't happen either. I think the ban list will remain unchanged. Bloom isn't that good honestly. Like it can win early but it's easy to mess up and easy to beat with the right build.
July 11, 2015 11:29 p.m.
OK I'm sorry for my tone.
I'm sorry but tapgo control has never really been Tier 1 in my memory, there are other controlling decks out there though that play very similarly and have put up results such as Chapin's list or American midrange. So not sure if you've tried those or not, but "true controlc just isn't viable in Modern for whatever reason and the format is perfectly fine without it.
As for Dig I never said it was the same, just that it was similar enough in Wizard's eyes to prevent Delver from picking up where it left off. It is highly unlikely they will unban it after such a short time. Yes the bannings were controversial, but Wizards probably saw many decks being pushed out and didn't particularly want that to continue. Cruise though was seen by many as a flop when it released until it started showing up in Delver and Burn.
July 11, 2015 11:46 p.m.
APPLE01DOJ says... #21
Unban Deathrite Shaman he allowed for more decks to exist...
July 11, 2015 11:48 p.m.
Control variants exist for control players to play, it may not be your preferred tap-go control but you got something to satisfy you.
July 11, 2015 11:53 p.m.
CanadianShinobi says... #24
NateJH but Wizards doesn't particularly care about Modern. They do not test it. They do not print for it. As such they only ban/unban cards in it. But to do so without proper knowledge is erroneous at best and devastating at worst.
This is partially why I view their oversight of the ban list as an increasingly bad joke. They promote the format, but they don't actively test or even research the format it seems. Just look at how long Wild Nacatl and Golgari Grave-Troll were banned.
As JexInfinite stated, Wizards dislikes change. They are reluctant to experiment. And that, for a format that requires experimentation is bad. The ban list, I would argue, requires scrutiny. And the criteria for enabling bans should be clear.
July 12, 2015 12:05 a.m.
JexInfinite says... #25
For the people saying that Dig is too powerful of a Magic card, look at legacy. Cruise is banned, but Dig is not. Why? Because Dig is a reasonable Magic card, and Cruise is a slightly worse Ancestral Recall.
July 12, 2015 12:14 a.m.
Throw away the ban list and let everyone have fun. People are too scared the format would be warped I say no, everyone would have amazingly powerful decks.
July 12, 2015 12:16 a.m.
CanadianShinobi says... #27
DrFunk27 it would be degenerate. And power without temperance in Modern is just a light version of Legacy, which is not what Modern is or ever should be. The ban list is useful, but it would be more useful if Wizards used it properly. Currently, if I had my wish I would unban Sword of the Meek and Dig Through Time. These would be unbanned and then should the format become degenerate, banned as needed. Everything else on the list is reasonable to stay banned.
July 12, 2015 1:06 a.m.
TheAnnihilator says... #28
Unban Dig Through Time and Jace, the Mind Sculptor. I also want something to strengthen creature decks, but not sure what it should be yet. Maybe Punishing Fire? I kindof want Deathrite again, but I don't like the damage he does to reanimator/graveyard decks.
Or -- ban Scavenging Ooze and unban Deathrite Shaman. ScOoze is better against GY strategies, and fits best into specific strategies (BGx, mainly). Deathrite fits into many, many archetypes and does significantly less against GY stuff.
Also, I know I'm going to get shit for mentioning Jace, but as a justification he's a four drop that Brainstorms (ideally), or a four-mana Unsummon. He's a good card, yeah, but I think people assume he's too powerful because of Caw Blade Standard.
July 12, 2015 2:54 a.m.
pumpkinwavy says... #29
No, nobody is saying Jace is too good based off of standard. That's based off of legacy and vintage and just looking at how ridiculous the card is. Even if he was unbanned, his price would shoot up to 500 dollars overnight, making modern insanely expensive. Jace isn't ideally a four mana Brainstorm, he's a four mana win the game.
Punishing Fire and Deathrite Shaman are not candidates for unbanning. They are both too powerful for modern.
July 12, 2015 7:30 a.m.
lemmingllama says... #30
@pumpkinwavy Actually, I could see Punishing Fire come off the ban list a couple years down the road. It's an exceedingly powerful card, but currently the format is being defined by 5 toughness creatures like Tasigur, the Golden Fang, Gurmag Angler, and Siege Rhino. It also doesn't really do that much against creature decks like Affinity or Elves, since they get out too many creatures too quickly.
Also the games where Punishing Fire is used solely as a wincon will be hilarious, doing 1 or 2 points of damage a turn and all that.
July 12, 2015 7:47 a.m.
FreeDTTIf not Dig, I'd personally like to see Ponder or Preordain be unbanned. Not Brainstorm levels of power, but a better blue cantrip would be nice. If nothing else, Serum Visions would no longer cost an arm and a leg. It'd help control decks become more viable, because regardless of Chapin's wins, Control decks aren't in a great place right now.
July 12, 2015 8:09 a.m.
Well, that didn't format quite the way I wanted it to, but the general idea is still there.
July 12, 2015 8:09 a.m.
pumpkinwavy says... #33
Control is fine. Grixis, uwr and esper are all playable control decks, they just aren't super popular at the moment.
lemmingllama Punishing Fire is like Umezawa's Jitte, it makes decks with small creatures unplayable. Like, completely utterly unplayable. Also unbanning Punishing Fire would prevent them for finishing the cycle of Grove of the Burnwillows.
July 12, 2015 10:30 p.m.
TheAnnihilator says... #34
Control is fine... if by "control" you mean Abzan Control.
Otherwise, Chapin's list is ok, but not that great. Not to be down on it, it's innovative and interesting, but no control deck really wants to be forced to play Thought Scour -- it also relies pretty hard on Terminate. UWR, however, is basically unplayable right now, too. Thoughtseize, Goyf, and Lili still tear UWR apart. You can only use Path to Exile so many times.
July 12, 2015 10:50 p.m.
"no control deck really wants to be forced to play Thought Scour"
Why not? It helps fuel Tasigur and Angler which are major tools in helping get the deck to where it is in addition to feeding Snappy.
July 12, 2015 10:52 p.m.
pumpkinwavy says... #36
Abzan and jund aren't even that much of the meta, and they aren't unbeatable if you're playing control. It's the value company decks that give you a hard time. So, while control might not be super well positioned, it IS still viable.
Grixis control is basically grixis delver without delver - it wins the long game while also being able to cast a 5/5 turn two.
July 12, 2015 10:56 p.m.
TheAnnihilator says... #37
The reason Tasigur and Angler are even in the deck is because Grixis has to play midrangey creatures to maintain control of the game -- not necessarily by choice. Thought Scour is good with snapcaster mage, but it's a necessity in order to play the delve spells -- not fuel for them.
July 12, 2015 10:57 p.m.
TheAnnihilator says... #38
I agree with Pumpkin's comment regarding Grixis, but even though you can still win with control vs. BGx, you're still a heavy underdog.
July 12, 2015 10:58 p.m.
Serendipitous_Hummingbird says... #39
DDT should stay banned. As much as control would benefit from DDT, combo would as well. Twin is a fine tier 1 deck right now. No need to make it more powerful
July 12, 2015 11:06 p.m.
TheAnnihilator says... #40
I'd would like to point out, however, that what I said above is my opinion based on my experience. I may be wrong, but those are just observations I've made. So feel free to disagree with me.
Also, Serendipitous_Hummingbird, what you've said is unfortunately true.
July 12, 2015 11:09 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #41
I'm glad DDT is illegal (is it, even?). DTT, however, needs to be back. It won't though.
July 12, 2015 11:10 p.m.
Guys, wizards will never unban Sword of the Meek. It plus Thopter Foundry is just not a fun combo deck.
July 12, 2015 11:11 p.m.
NoPantsParade says... #43
hey i was going to make a joke about DDT.
Anyways, I'd like to see BBE taken off because that'd be nice for me. But we all know it won't happen.
I don't think anything will change, which is unfortunate. Change is fun.
July 12, 2015 11:13 p.m. Edited.
TheAnnihilator says... #44
DTT is the hero that Modern needs, but not the one that it wants.
July 12, 2015 11:28 p.m.
Necrotesque says... #45
I will speak for all the Affinity players by saying ban Stony Silence. In all seriousness, I think nothing will change, Modern is in a good spot right now.
July 12, 2015 11:55 p.m.
deathrite would be fun, dig would help create more control variants...
theres just nothing healthy i can see being brought back in. you guys dont want 99% of the cards youve brought up in this thread back, trust me.
and stop hating on summer bloom! sure, breaking the 3rd-turn rule "more consistently" is a thing,
but if you go to a tournament you will see those bloom decks flounder a LOT more often. theyre their own worst enemy. if someone wants to bring gambling to the tournament as their "strategy", fine. i dont like it either, but top 16s are never FLOODED with stupid stupid dumb idiot stupid bloom titan decks
(if any amulet bloom players are reading, im not sorry.)
sure, id give a good cackle if bloom gets banned, but it wouldnt be the healtiest banning.
nothing will change, and if it does,
wizards better have an awesome explanation
July 13, 2015 3:29 a.m.
Stony Silence and Choke are probably the two sideboard cards that make me smile the most when i board them in haha
you guys deserve it, bein all mean to us nice honest junk mages game 1
July 13, 2015 3:40 a.m.
pumpkinwavy says... #48
wolfhead that's actually a very good point. Someone playing bloom at a large tournament will lose to themselves a couple times and then they'll be out. Maybe bloom is a broken deck when your against it, but it will lose to itself a couple times and then the bloom player will be eliminated. No one wants to bring a deck that has the risk of not doing anything and then just losing.
So, while bloom is a powerful deck, its a poor choice for a large tournament, therefore it will never dominate.
July 13, 2015 8:10 a.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #49
You can't just assume that people will screw up and lose and that's why it's ok. People screwed up with Pod too. I do think Bloom is fine, but you can't argue like that.
July 13, 2015 8:30 a.m.
No changes made. Everyone can sigh in relief. Next update is September with BfZ.
pumpkinwavy says... #2
No way Umezawa's Jitte comes off. The most likely unbanning is probably Sword of the Meek, but I think wotc is happy with modern right now and doesn't want to risk shaking it up.
I'm in camp free Dig Through Time, but I don't think that will happen for at least a year.
July 11, 2015 8:12 p.m.