Browbeat in Burn
Modern forum
Posted on May 5, 2015, 4:22 p.m. by FAMOUSWATERMELON
Could modern burn benefit at all from a one-of Browbeat? It seems like an ideal card: T3-4 they're very close to dead except they have a bit of life left and a blocker or two. You use this to get the remaining gas (as burn has no card draw) and win. I have no idea if this is a good option, but it seems decent to me.
RoarMaster says... #3
Browbeat, although efficient card suffers from the drawback that your opponent gets to choose the outcome, so the card will always be the worst effect possible for you.
May 5, 2015 4:25 p.m.
Servo_Token says... #4
In theory, anything that gives your opponents the choice of what your play is is a bad card. It's been suggested before, and I still don't think it's ideal, but if you want to try it out, let nothing stop you I guess.
May 5, 2015 4:25 p.m.
Eliiiiiiiiiiiiiiza says... #5
I used to run the card in my burn list until I had to take it apart. That card can be very powerful, as either option is just as good for you. I absolutely recommend running at least two. My original list ran three, but that might be too much
May 5, 2015 4:26 p.m.
FAMOUSWATERMELON says... #6
Well five to the face on T3 against burn is usually not an option.
May 5, 2015 4:26 p.m.
Eliiiiiiiiiiiiiiza says... #7
Then again, my LGS is anything but Pro-Tour level competitive, so I guess you'll have to try it in your own meta.
May 5, 2015 4:27 p.m.
Servo_Token says... #8
Fun fact, for the price of one Browbeat, you can have 3 Lightning Bolt effects. It's very expensive for just 5 damage.
May 5, 2015 4:27 p.m.
It's situational. I've seen arguments for both sides. People against it say that you're always going to want to cast a full on burn over this. Or that your opponent will almost never agree to take the damage unless they have a plan for surviving it, in which case, extra cards might not help you either. People for it say exactly what you did. I'm on the fence, but I lean toward the against camp - turns 3 and 4 I'm pretty much always going to want to drop some heavier burns, Fireball variants, etc. But if you've got Guttersnipe out, it really doesn't matter what you cast. So, there's your not much of an answer answer!
May 5, 2015 4:28 p.m.
ThatJunkMage makes a good point. The rebuttal to which is that by turn 3 you probably don't have 3 single mana burn spells left to cast unless you sand-bagged them to get a Guttersnipe out first.
May 5, 2015 4:30 p.m.
FAMOUSWATERMELON says... #11
Thing is, T3, you'll likely have like two cards in your hand, if any. Burn runs out of gas really quickly. In the rare occasions that the 5 damage doesn't kill them, it'll very likely put them in range of a topdecked-bolt.
May 5, 2015 4:30 p.m.
Servo_Token says... #12
You typically lose the top-deck game though. Granted, my only burn experience is with legacy, but the case there is you 95% of the time lose when you're out of cards in hand.
May 5, 2015 4:33 p.m.
I'd say it's closer to 50/50 than 95%. If your deck is well-built in Modern, it's mostly spells. If you get unlucky and pull a few lands in a row, yeah you're boned. But statistically speaking, you're more likely to draw a burn spell. Regardless of percentages, it's far from an ideal situation, which becomes an argument in favor of Browbeat as a means of filling your hand back up.
May 5, 2015 4:35 p.m.
Despite what everyone says, I still think Browbeat doesn't suck just because it's a choice card. Choice cards are bad when one or both of the possible outcomes can be bad for you (e.g. a turn 1 Vexing Devil when the opponent has cheap removal in their hand, or Dash Hopes against a wincon / an opponent with tons of life to spend). Browbeat gives you either 5 damage (which is great) or three cards (which is even better). Much like Temporal Extortion, the only way this could be a wasted play is if it gets countered or the game's already lost for you anyway.
The real problem with Browbeat is that it's a 3-drop. Burn has a low mana curve and never runs more than 20 lands, so that could be a problem... but you should be fine as long as you don't run more than two copies, I guess.
May 5, 2015 4:37 p.m.
The question then becomes, would you rather increase your chances of drawing a spell in that situation by putting another burn in that slot, or do you want to hedge your bet that you're going to get screwed top-decking and run Browbeat.
May 5, 2015 4:38 p.m.
You dont want to hedge your bets on a 3 mana card in a burn deck running like 17 lands and that burn card that forces you to sacrifice your own lands (cant remember name).
May 5, 2015 4:39 p.m.
ChiefBell: Shard Volley. That's a card I'm 100% against.
May 5, 2015 4:43 p.m.
Servo_Token says... #19
Shard volley is a fine finishing bolt, I just wouldn't run 4 of them. Maybe 2 if I were mono red.
May 5, 2015 4:45 p.m.
Personally, I agree. I'd much rather see a Lightning Bolt or Lightning Helix than Browbeat. I'm just playing devil's advocate.
May 5, 2015 4:45 p.m.
@ChiefBell: I figured.
And yeah square711, Shard Volley is great for putting a game to bed.
May 5, 2015 4:49 p.m.
I just don't like messing with my own lands. Ever. My lands are sacred.Heck, I don't even like destroying other people's lands, let alone my own in an 18-land deck.
Then again, I hate playing burn, so it's not like it matters to me.
May 5, 2015 4:50 p.m.
lemmingllama says... #25
Browbeat is an interesting card, but the fact that it costs 3 mana (which is difficult for burn sometimes) and it gives you opponent a choice (they'll always choose the best option for themselves) makes it a weaker card. Another issue is that if they get you to draw cards, you have spent an entire turn simply drawing cards and not killing them. If they have a way of dealing with the cards you drew or can simply kill you, then it was pointless. Imagine needing a single Lightning Bolt to kill your opponent and you are in topdeck mode, they are going to win next turn for sure, and you flip a Browbeat off the top. Not ideal...
May 5, 2015 4:57 p.m.
Fleetwood-Mat says... #26
Reforge the Soul is better for hand restock, because you can afford to draw a couple lands on it, whereas Browbeat doesn't afford you that luxury, but reforge also stocks your opponent's hand, and has to be hit on a miracle to be as good as Wheel of Fortune. If you're playing mono-red burn, consider Blood Moon since it stops tron and many junk decks out there. Only thing is that every other matchup is going to be against another burn deck (thanks again to WOTC for not banning Lightning Bolt), so that makes it hard to figure how many moons to put mainboard, and how many for sideboard.
May 5, 2015 5:12 p.m.
FAMOUSWATERMELON says... #27
Reforge the Soul is out of the question. Five mana.
May 5, 2015 5:13 p.m.
Don't talk shit on Shard Volley until you've tried it. It's very very good but is outclassed by stuff like Lava Spike and Atarka's Command. Volley is far better than Browbeat.
May 5, 2015 5:16 p.m.
Fleetwood-Mat says... #30
FAMOUSWATERMELON; the miracle cost is the only way to get that ability for 2 mana in all of MTG. You only put 2, because you don't WANT to cast it unless you get the miracle.
May 5, 2015 5:59 p.m.
No I agree with FAMOUSWATERMELON. If I ever saw that in my opening hand, I'd be furious. Even 2 is too many.
May 5, 2015 6:04 p.m.
The problem is Reforge the Soul is an auto-mulligan. Even one is too many in Burn, IMO.
May 5, 2015 6:06 p.m.
If I were that desperate for card draw in a burn match, I'd rather be running Dangerous Wager.
May 5, 2015 6:24 p.m.
quesobueno123 says... #35
If I was desperate for card draw in a burn match, I wouldn't be the burn player.
May 5, 2015 6:24 p.m.
FAMOUSWATERMELON says... #36
Reforge the Soul is never going in to a competitive burn deck. It's just too slow, and you can't count on the miracle.
May 5, 2015 6:26 p.m.
quesobueno123: Heh, fair enough. Wager seems decent to have when you're absolutely out of gas, but when Burn runs out of gas it usually means GG, so yeah.
May 5, 2015 6:36 p.m.
ive used it and have had good luck with either effect for 3 mana there worth it
May 5, 2015 7:02 p.m.
wwhitegoldd says... #39
If you really want a 3 mana burn spell just play Flames of the Blood Hand. WAY more consistent and only 1 less damage.
May 5, 2015 11:18 p.m.
JaceArveduin says... #41
APPLE01DOJ Pfft, give me Spark Jolt any day!
As for the thread, I do believe I'd run Wager over Browbeat, since it's instant speed and 2 mana.
ChiefBell says... #2
Too expensive. Too situational.
May 5, 2015 4:25 p.m.