Budget Alternatives for Abzan Staples (Help)
Modern forum
Posted on Feb. 22, 2015, 4:27 p.m. by JDMCRIB
I'm thinking about converting my Standard Abzan midrange list into a Modern deck, mainly because I like the diversity of card choice and archetypes. However, when I was looking up popular lists, cards like Tarmogoyf, Noble Hierarch, and Liliana of the Veil made me really sad. So, I was needed some help deciding what to run in place of those cards, because I don't feel like dropping $1250 for them any time soon. Here's what I've been toying with:
Skinshifter - This is probably the closest to Tarmogoyf I've seen. While he requires an investment every turn to keep him alive, and he's in bolt range otherwise, he's really diverse with his three modes, and I wouldn't have to tweak manabases.
Jotun Grunt - I've heard a lot of good things about this card, but I'm not seeing it being better than Skinshifter. Whiles he's always a 4/4 (out of bolt range), his upkeep cost is what bothers me. I'll probably only be able to keep him out for a few turns, due to the "single graveyard" cause. He's also white, meaning I'd have to change the manabase.
Vinelasher Kudzu - One of the first guys I considered, he seems pretty frail at first. But, since I'm running 9 fetches and 3 Knight of the Reliquary, he'll get real big, real fast. His boost is also in counter form, so it won't go away, and it doesn't require a mana investment. It does require constant landflow to be worth it, though.
Birds of Paradise - Obviously replacement for Noble Hierarch. Basically the same card, with + Flying and - Exalted. Flying helps because I can attack with him once he gets Gavony Townshipped.
Liliana of the Veil - This is the one that I couldn't think of. I don't know of any other permanent that has simliar abilities for its cost.
Any feedback on what I should choose for the Tarmogoyf and Liliana of the Veil replacements would be a great help!
GlistenerAgent says... #3
People have tried for a long time to replace those cards. All the options have varying levels of success, but none are as good.
Doran, the Siege Tower lets you take the deck in a different direction with stuff like Spellskite and Treefolk Harbinger. That's a pretty resilient shell, and he's a pretty damn efficient creature.
As for Liliana, nothing really fits her spot. Necrogen Mists kind of does it, sacrifice effects kind of do it. You could also just play something like Phyrexian Arena.
February 22, 2015 4:35 p.m.
Dalektable says... #4
Don't do it. You can't play the Abzan you are thinking of without Lily and Goyf. You should look of Jacob Wilson's Abzan list from the PT. It is very different, playing out like a GW Aggro deck really but it is the closest you can get without shelling out the big bucks. Sad truth of the matter, without those two big cards the deck in question is significantly worse.
February 22, 2015 4:53 p.m.
Well, I'm not thinking about high-level play with the deck, more just like FNM and maybe some Modern events where I can find them. I feel like using a suitable alternative should be satisfactory for those purposes, but I know that Tarmogoyf and Liliana of the Veil are almost too good to replace. I think Skinshifter can fit Goyf's roll marginally well, and Phyrexian Arena sounds iffy, but I could try it.
However, Doran, the Siege Tower sounds really interesting. Synergy with Courser of Kruphix and Spellskite sounds like a sweet idea.
February 22, 2015 5:01 p.m.
OK. Stop. This is a PSA. Don't try and replace stuff in decks for budgetting reasons. Just don't do it. You end up with a substandard deck, substandard cards and you will just get your face run over.
Instead, look at it from another angle. When I started building scapeshift, I couldn't afford the expensive bits, so I changed my shell completely to a more combo focused version with Telling Time, Peer Through Depths and Serum, backed up with Oracle, STE and Snapcasters I had left over from Isd standard. What I ended up with was a deck which ran less counters but on turn 4 could cast Oracle, have 2 lands open and play anything else, a much more comboy scapeshift.
February 22, 2015 5:08 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #7
Doran is actually a reasonable choice.
I will direct you to this reddit post as well as the power of Google to find a primer/other resource.
February 22, 2015 5:12 p.m.
I see your points, and, considering my options, I think that building around Doran, the Siege Tower may be the best choice. Coming in from THS-KTK standard, I've got access to Courser of Kruphix, Siege Rhino, and Thoughtseize, so thatll set me up somewhat. Spellskite, Nyx-Fleece Ram, Grizzled Leotau, and Treefolk Harbinger sounds pretty sweet.
February 22, 2015 5:15 p.m.
The abzan deck is just a pile of all of the best cards in those colours. Just build a different deck if you can't afford the deck. Replacing cards with worse alternative is just going to end up with you having an unplayable pile.
February 22, 2015 8:52 p.m.
mymanpotsandpans says... #10
Sheltering Ancient is a good one to pick I feel for budget azban. You have access to both Abrupt Decay and Path to Exile so anything you happen to buff early game can just be removed if it becomes a problem. It comes with trample, always out of bolt range, is splash-able for its cost. Then if the cumulative upkeep cost can't be met you probably are not that bad off in most cases.
I am not sure what could replace Liliana in terms of all the card advantage she gives.
Some budget ideas for "three drops" other than Necrogen Mists
Gatekeeper of Malakir- ETB Sac
Toshiro Umezawa- Kill stuff, reuse removal. Sort of like Snappy
Lifebane Zombie- Some hand disruption if appropriate and a decent attacker
February 22, 2015 9:25 p.m.
My deck Junk runs really well and I made it without the big money cards unintentionally,its just how it came out and it does surprisingly well. Its mainly about Making Knight of the Reliquary as big as possible while having other power cards in there. I had two 7/7 knights out on turn three with this deck,saccing lands and doing damage!
February 22, 2015 11:53 p.m.
JexInfinite says... #12
Little Kid Abzan is cheaper than Midrange Abzan. Play that.
February 23, 2015 2:38 a.m.
bijschjdbcd says... #13
Call it Little Kid Junk, Sounds much more intimidating.
February 23, 2015 2:56 a.m.
Just realized my deck didn't get tagged properly lol
February 23, 2015 3:09 a.m.
Yes, Axebane Stag is reasonable xD
As for everyone else, thanks for all the suggestions! I'm in the works of making a midrange/aggro list revolving around Doran, the Siege Tower and Glittering Wish. I'll post the deck and link it once I have it all sorted out.
bijschjdbcd says... #2
There is a reason these cards are so expensive...
February 22, 2015 4:34 p.m.