Counterspell Banned?
Modern forum
Posted on June 7, 2013, 8:41 p.m. by HarbingerJK
I posted a modern deck I made today Permission to Lose? Granted and it contains the awesomest of counter spells Counterspell and I noticed it says that the card is illegal. I checked the wizards website and it is most definitely not banned in modern, so why is it saying the card is illegal?
Yeah, the one you've got listed is from Jace vs. Chandra. While it has a modern border, that particular piece of merchandise isn't legal in modern play.
June 7, 2013 8:49 p.m.
I ran into this exact smae thing a couple weeks ago. Blue needs a comeback. REPRINT THE COUNTERSPELLLLLL
June 8, 2013 12:05 a.m.
HarbingerJK says... #6
word lol they've been destroying blue lately and I love U/B control
June 8, 2013 8:10 a.m.
infinitemana says... #7
Counterspell is definetly NOT something they should reprint. It is a four of in almost all blue Legacy decks
June 8, 2013 8:45 a.m.
HarbingerJK says... #8
you must work for wizards infinitemana since they're actively destroying blue
June 8, 2013 8:50 a.m.
infinitemana says... #9
lol, the only reason they are trying to weaken blue is because it's too powerful
June 8, 2013 9 a.m.
Epochalyptik says... #10
@HarbingerJK: Actively destroying blue? They printed things like Snapcaster Mage and Sphinx's Revelation . If they're making any attempt at nerfing some of blue's prevalence, it's because blue is too strong.
June 8, 2013 9:08 a.m.
HarbingerJK says... #11
I'll give you Snapcaster Mage but I want to see cards like Preordain and Mana Leak again. Not Spell Rupture and Cancel . I really feel like Innistrad did well by blue with Think Twice and Dissipate . But RTR block has just felt like taking a giant dump on blue.
June 8, 2013 4:29 p.m.
It just sucks that at one time, mono blue could be a viable deck in standard. I mean, mono red has enough support. I've seen mono green lists go to the top in this standard. White weenie is almost always present in some form. Mono black isn't looking too great, but it isn't straight-up unplayable. I've yet to see a legitimate mono blue deck in any standard from the past two years. It would be nice for a change.
June 8, 2013 5:27 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #13
@HarbingerJK: A large part of the reason they haven't printed cards like Mana Leak or Preordain in the past few sets is Snapcaster Mage . Those cards are too powerful with Snapcaster, and WOTC wants to keep the Standard environment somewhat balanced. We may see them reprinted or redesigned once Snapcaster leaves Standard.
June 8, 2013 5:37 p.m.
HarbingerJK says... #14
I disagree. I'm sure at some point they'll reprint Mana Leak and maybe Preordain . But Innistrad block is rotating out very soon. M14 is reprinting Essence Scatter and that tells me that blue is going to be a suppressed color for at least the next year.
June 8, 2013 7:02 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #15
I don't understand why you disagree then. Your post seems to be saying the same thing mine does.
Blue in general seems to be holding up well, even though RTR didn't bring anything on the caliber of Delver of Secrets Flip or Snapcaster Mage .
June 8, 2013 8:43 p.m.
HarbingerJK says... #16
I'm just saying that I don't think Snapcaster Mage leaving standard is going to make wizards reprint cards like Mana Leak . It seems like you agreed with me tho that wizards is suppressing blue because it's a strong color, and I don't think it's going to come back for a while.
June 8, 2013 11:14 p.m.
I personally got really bored with overwhelming amount of aggro in standard atm. its way more powerful than say...detain. . extort decks are around but seem to always lose. idk The meta right now is so Carebear aggro that Im really turned off with it. I want to see control come back and do well. I want something that isnt creature....creature...tap attack etc etc etc etc etc etc etc into oblivion. . .. I jsut want to.....Flip the table and throw a counterspell at there face. .. . jsut throw it....right. .at...there..face
June 8, 2013 11:37 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #19
Snapcaster Mage leaving Standard will open the door a little wider for more powerful blue spells.
WOTC only seems to be nerfing blue because they overempowered it just before. Cards like Cavern of Souls and Dryad Militant were printed as a way of controlling the results of previous releases; they're cards that enable small adjustments to the meta without the need for bans.
June 9, 2013 12:05 a.m.
@KevinBasham does this mono-blue work for you?Fahrenheit 451
June 9, 2013 12:19 a.m.
well.... not only directed at him.... anyone this satifies let me know!
June 9, 2013 12:20 a.m.
The more cards allowed in a format, the more powerful blue is going to be unfortunately. In legacy, it's necessary to have blue in most decks.
Counterspell shouldn't be reprinted.
June 9, 2013 1:37 p.m.
im sorry but that logic made zero sense. EVERY color gets stronger. not just blue. Blue IS combo and control. that is what blue is. . . reprint counterspell. make more cards that count be countered if you truly think its an issue
June 9, 2013 2:46 p.m.
HarbingerJK says... #24
Yeah I don't understand how more cards makes one particular color more powerful. I also don't see how that makes Counterspell a card that shouldn't be reprinted either lol
June 9, 2013 3:03 p.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #25
Blue is still the strongest color. The fact that mono-Blue isn't viable in Constructed formats anymore is proof that the rebalancing efforts over the past 10 years have been successful, but it's still the case that the best decks are usually part Blue.
Counterspell 's effect is slightly too powerful for its cost, and it shouldn't be reprinted. I think the reason it's hard for you to understand why is because you weren't playing the game during the span of time it was still being printed, so you don't have a good perspective on how powerful and oppressive it really is.
June 9, 2013 8:33 p.m.
HarbingerJK says... #26
Rhadamanthus I listen to you because you always put things more logically than anyone else. But when I think about Counterspell I compare it to Cancel obviously. In the current standard all you have to do is have a Goblin Electromancer out and boom you have a Counterspell out of Cancel . But even Mana Leak is essentially a Counterspell tho, because it's rare for your opponent to have the extra 3 mana.
June 9, 2013 9:58 p.m.
GreatSword says... #27
Similar spells can have different effects on different parts of the game. Sure, a Mana Leak on turn 2 is very much like a Counterspell , but not on turn 8 when your opponent has plenty of mana. Even the Goblin Electromancer /Cancel combo is "fair" because it requires you to not only have the electromancer out but some red mana in your deck and out on the field too. Counterspell is just too powerful at all stages of the game for such little cost.
June 9, 2013 11:02 p.m.
HarbingerJK says... #28
but at turn 8 Cancel isn't too far off either lol in a couple sets the next pure hard counter is going to be a 4 drop...at which point I will probably stop playing magic all together lol
June 9, 2013 11:06 p.m.
I dont like the assumption that I didnt play in the time of oppresive blue. I did. blue is not IMO the strongest color anymore but it is def one of the best. Personally I think white is OP. the rebalancing was needed and wizards has done a great job with that. Counterspell I still do not think is OP. i think if it were to be reprinted it should however be in a set with at least some staple "can not be countered" spells.
June 10, 2013 1:50 a.m.
HarbingerJK says... #31
that'd definitely be a good way to balance it out. RTR has a few cards like that but no really awesome counter spells except maybe Counterflux and Syncopate
June 10, 2013 8:14 a.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #32
@ApocryphalSaint: I was talking to HarbingerJK. Since my post immediately followed his and I didn't use "@blah" to name anyone else I thought that would have been clear, but I guess I should have done "@blah" to him anyway to make sure. For as long as Counterspell was in print it was pretty obvious to me that it was a very powerful card, maybe too much, but if you didn't get that impression I doubt there's anything I can say to convince you otherwise. Using "can't be countered" on a wider group of cards to try to offset the strength of countermagic in a format is just bad design. If you're going to put it on the staples, why even bother printing countermagic at all?
As for Mana Leak , the trade-off you have to make for a card that's just as strong as Counterspell in the early game is that it can start to become pretty useless on turns 6+, when Counterspell is still just as good as ever. As the game progresses, Cancel approaches Counterspell in strength until the two are almost indistinguishable. The big difference is what they can do in the early game. Right now the design philosophy is that a player shouldn't be able to slam down a definitive "No" that easily in the early game unless he's making some other trade-off in power or flexibility (Mana Leak , Spell Rupture , Negate , etc.).
There's no reason for the basic hard counter to get any more expensive than Cancel . That's where the effect will stay as the years go by.
June 10, 2013 10:13 a.m.
you do make good arguements. and your points are completely valid. I would agree mostly with you other than your opinion about the cant be countered.
However there are many if not most times Id prefer a counterspell to my face than a Path to exile to my rear end.
June 10, 2013 10:33 a.m.
I doubt Counterspell will see standard anytime soon. The current development mentality seems to be that three mana (Cancel ) is the 'balanced' cost for a hard counter.
Although Mana Leak has always been a good stand-in, and that will surely get reprinted sometime in the future.
Epochalyptik says... #2
Counterspell was never printed in a Modern-legal set.
June 7, 2013 8:47 p.m.