Current State of Competitive Burn.
Modern forum
Posted on Nov. 10, 2015, 10:35 p.m. by MADMatt7777
It's been a couple of months now since Traditional Burn made the transition to Nacatl Burn. I want to know what the TappedOut Community Burn players think about this.
Nacatl Burn recently took 3rd place at SCG Modern IQ York (http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/339542#paper) and has been doing fairly well at some other tournaments as well.
Personally I do not like Nacatl Burn. I played it at GP Oklahoma City and each of the matches I lost was because I top decked a Wild Nacatl instead of a burn spell.
What are you guys thoughts and opinions on the current state of competitive Burn? Do you think its better off as Nacatl Burn or do you think traditional Burn is better? Why? If you don't play Burn but some other competitive deck, what are your opinions on Nacatl Burn vs Traditional Burn?
Thanks for reading and please leave a comment.
GlistenerAgent says... #3
I don't like this deck because I played some games and lost with it.
But seriously, there are arguments for both sides. I personally like playing Nacatl, as it's good in the mirror (yes, despite mana concerns) and having a creature in play is frequently better for your plan because of the repeatable damage.
November 10, 2015 10:47 p.m.
Jamesfurrow says... #4
See I have played agaisnt burn decks as jund, grixis, and tokens.
Token never cared what version it was as long I could vualt of the archangel and gain it all back.
Jund it mattered greatly which version I was up agaisnt. Since in my version I ran finks and huntmaster though I was able to sustain life better. Either way jund greatly prefers seeing naya burn due to the fact jund has every removal spell it could ever want agaisnt creatures. When I don't have consistent life gain traditional burn will wreck jund.
Grixis also prefers to go up agaisnt the Naya burn list due to the fact is also has a great number of removal and counter spells to utilize game one. Game 2 grixis doesn't seem to care which version of burn you play because the sideboard will put in either more counter spells or more removal depending which is required to the type of burn its up agaisnt.
Affinity also seems to prefer when you play naya burn because it can fly over your ground creatures and you have less likelyhood of interacting with their board when it comes to top decks. which version of burn you play matters greatly with affinity when a top deck bolt can save you from their 8/2 ornithopter
November 10, 2015 11:17 p.m.
Coinman1863 says... #5
I myself am a practitioner of Boros Burn for the following reasons.
I feel like the extra damage for your mana base matters in the long run.
Nacatl cannot swing when you play it. (Huge when comparing it to goblin guide and swiftspear)
With the Nacatl you are less likely to draw a burn spell when you need it.
I don't feel like Atarka's Command Does as much as people think it does. Skullcrack has the same function most of the time but you don't have to take 2 extra damage to play it.
The sideboard options are about the same.
So that's my thought on the subject, and I'll leave my list here for perusing to express my point of view. RDW Funsies.
November 10, 2015 11:38 p.m.
It's a fad. Once the meta starts demanding greater efficiency from the burn decks (as opposed to the recent one, which demanded resiliency), you'll see people switch back.
November 10, 2015 11:38 p.m. Edited.
I like Naya burn, but not Nacatl burn. Nacatl get's chumped a lot, but having access to Boros Charm and Atarka's Command is reason enough to play Naya.
November 10, 2015 11:42 p.m.
MADMatt7777 says... #8
Coinman1863 I feel like you are underestimating the power of Atarka's Command. I've used each mode to kill people in the past. it also provides more consistent turn 3 kills. similarly your sideboard can contain destructive revelry which is amazing. as far as i am concerned, paying an extra 2 life is inconsequential if i am killing my opponent faster
November 10, 2015 11:53 p.m.
StealthyGunnar says... #9
I do not prefer Nacatl.
For burn, you want damage right away. You want the spell you cast to do damage THAT turn. Nacatl doesn't do that. Nacatl does not have haste. Trying to find a way to give it haste is just a waste of a card slot.
November 10, 2015 11:54 p.m.
In comparing a few lists, it seems as the argument between the two is Wild Nacatl vs Searing Blaze. Otherwise the lists are nearly identical. I haven't had the chance to play the Nacatl burn but I would agree that Wild Nacatl's non-hastiness does hurt itself.
November 10, 2015 11:54 p.m.
MADMatt7777 says... #11
KB2187 what do you mean by "In comparing a few lists, it seems as the argument between the two is Wild Nacatl vs Searing Blaze."
November 11, 2015 12:03 a.m.
To be clear, Naya is unquestionably the way to go for Burn. Atarka's Command and Destructive Revelry are huge, huge additions. But you don't need to go as far as adding Wild Nacatl.
November 11, 2015 12:05 a.m.
To me it feels as that's the one option people are deciding for it. (Spots 57-60) if you will. Granted I just saw a list that has both and no Lightning Helix so those to me feel like the cards that people would contemplate cutting/adding depending on what their meta is.
November 11, 2015 12:15 a.m.
MADMatt7777 says... #14
KB2187 thanks for the imput. generally ive found that people who run nacatl also ran a playset of Searing Blaze but it is really meta dependent.
November 11, 2015 12:25 a.m.
JonathanSamurai says... #15
Chandra RDW Burn. I prefer mono red burn to Boros burn which I've beaten head to head, I have never heard of Nya burn until now. Is there a link to a list on here?
November 11, 2015 2:07 a.m.
Try mine:
Light 'Em Up
Modern
SCORE: 0 | 0 COMMENTS | 243 VIEWS
The problem with mono-
is that it scoops to Leyline of Sanctity. Seriously, you can't beat that card. Boros vs. Naya is a debate that mostly hinges on explosiveness vs. safety, and given that you're one of the fastest aggro decks around (if not THE fastest), you always go for explosiveness.
As for your deck... you need Rift Bolt, Lava Spike, and Searing effects, stat.
November 11, 2015 2:11 a.m.
MADMatt7777 says... #17
Jonathannoob Your Burn list looks a pretty slow compared to the speed that Naya Burn operates at. here is a link to what the current top tier Naya Burn decks look like: http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/336587#online
November 11, 2015 2:11 a.m.
JexInfinite says... #18
Burn decks have had no new tools since Atarka's Command, and people are trying to innovate their lists without actually improving anything. Nacatl makes favoured matchups significantly closer to 50/50, and doesn't improve any of the bad ones. The 50/50 matchups don't change too much, and some get slightly worse.
There is no reason to play Nacatl, which is bad in burn, at a competitive level. The fact that Nacatl burn has high finishes may have nothing to do with the inclusion of Nacatl, rather that burn will always do well.
November 11, 2015 3:45 a.m.
I tried Nacatl, perfect in your opening hand and an awful draw, even t2. I just don't like it in burn, feels like a Vexing Devil, but worse.I play a naya list with a set of Boros Charm and Atarka's Command in the mainboard. Modal spells always surprises the opponent, using a command to give reach to your eidolon, to block a huge Inkmoth nexus WHILE swinging for 3 damage is great value, and most players are simply not prepared for this. Also "droppin' a land" mode can sometimes lead to a t3 win. It's a corner case, but I won an already lost game vs affinity doing: 2 lands down, Land, command, land, Command, land, bolt.I'm going with nacatless at every competitive event for the next months (Gpt, Gp, and a huge "Win 40 shocklands, 4 goyf, 20 fetchlands, 1 match vs R. Garfield") and I think i'll keep this way through the pptqs (and hopefully a rptq) in the 2016.
rorofat says... #2
My friend and I have a highly competitive play group, and one of the decks we pass around is burn. Having played it consistently, I can say that I really prefer Nacatl-less burn over Nacatl burn. It feels more consistent and redundant (in a good way). You lose a bit of game against the slower decks (like tron), but you gain more instant interaction against blue decks.
November 10, 2015 10:40 p.m.